RallyCross in San Diego 1/21/06 !!!

[JamesWilson]

http://www.dirtye30.com/sdrally.html

[mievil]

Sweet!!!! I tried following, but I didn't quite catch. It's basically a show up, register, pay the cash, get teched, and race sort of deal? No prereg?

[mievil]

Also, through reading the rules, adjustable dampers are not allowed in the 2wd Street Stock class, correct?

[frosty]

:eek: SWEEEEEEEEEEEEE...
EEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTT.:D :D :D

[frosty]

I don't think my WRX would be suited for this (it has high performance dry/wet tires; not intended for offroad). I can bring a stock pickup (RWD) and do this, right?

[mievil]

Also, through reading the rules, adjustable dampers are not allowed in the 2wd Street Stock class, correct?


Nevermind, got my answers through an email. Adjustable dampers not allowed in stock class.


Think about renting if you want to play, just make sure you purchase the extra insurance.

*Edited due to new information*

[frosty]

Crud! It doesn't have a roll bar and I'm not going to put one into it.

Do you think that I could rallycross in these tires? http://www.falkentire.com/tires_451.htm I'm not asking if I could do well, just be able to do it (and not damage or put wear/tear on my car beyond what happens at autox).

When I was in highschool, I chewed up the front suspension of the pickup I had (same one) by driving it on black mountain road back before it was a "road". Tons of fun. Anyway, I don't want to do the same or worse to my 'rex.

[LarryC]

Frosty. According to the rules, you can drive any SUV, or truck, but it must have a roll-bar/cage.


The Rallycross web site saids "Roll cages are not required as accidents and damage to vehicles is VERY rare."

[rodger]

Is that link to the CRS rules correct? I don't see any mention of a Modified class, and there's not a "true" Stock class.

[symantix]

I've never seen one of these events. What's the track surface like? Will your car get mangled doing this? I am a little wary about bringing a Carrera 4 to an event like this if it's going to screw it up... Am I an idiot for even considering it or is this OK? :cool:

[MarkA]

Hi Guys,

I’m the 2006 CRS BoG RallyX chair so while I’m not one of the individual promoters of this event, I can answer many of your general RallyX questions.

First, here are the entire CRS RallyX class rules:

“The two Street Stock Classes are for cars that have limited performance modifications, and do not use rally tires. Street Stock 2wd will be for two-wheel drive cars. Street Stock 4wd will be for four-wheel drive cars. For Street Stock the exhaust system does not need to be stock behind the catalytic converter. Replacement air filter elements are allowed and computer chip upgrades are allowed. Cars that have been modified beyond the limits detailed above and are running “street” tires will be placed in either Street Modified 4wd or Street Modified 2wd. Any tires with non-circumferential sipes wider than .22” will not be allowed in any of the Street Stock or Street Modified Classes. Any cars running tires that do not qualify for the “Street” classes will be placed in either Rally 4wd or Rally 2wd class.”

Yup, that’s it – no hundreds of pages document to go through. For the SS classes, if it’s considered OEM-equivalent, it is legal. If a part has no performance gain and is not OEM (i.e. add on interior items, body kits, etc.), it will most likely be allowed but we leave that up to the individual event promoters.

Just as an FYI, the SS class cars beat the SM ones at least 50% of the time – many “performance” mods that put cars into SM do not help at a RallyX. I.e. stiffer is not always better, power does not help all that much and so on…

We’ve had several events last year where three of the top five cars outright, regardless of class (no Pax) were, from the R2 class, a 92’ Nissan SE-R, a 95’ Ford Probe, and a 95’ Dodge Neon (in other words, all three combined are worth what some AutoX'rs spend on suspension setups alone) so you can see that driving trumps car in RallyX. If you've AutoCrossed in heavy rain, you know what I mean.

Track surface may or may not get rutted – we don’t know, we’ve never ran there before. Some of our other venues never rut more than an inch deep. Sometimes we’ve seen foot deep ruts and we’ve “parked” cars on their side but it’s rare.

For those concerned about their cars, put a coat of painters tape on it (http://www.gcrallyx.com/gallery/08_13_2005_glen_helen/12.jpg) to deflect the dirt.

On street tires, inflate to at least 35PSI Cold – if you’re on 17” or larger wheels, 42-44+ PSI – that’ll help prevent blowing a bead.

You can also just go rent a car – Eli Gilbert has won 2 CRS SS2 class titles using exclusively whatever he can get from Hertz/Enterprise/Etc. Just buy the damage waiver and if something happens, “I was parked at WalMart and…”

Questions welcome at rallyxsocal@dslextreme.com

Mark Anton

[JamesWilson]

Sorry, no truck classes will be run at this event due to the surfaces we encounter. That includes your stock F150, or a SCORE Trophy Truck. The event organizers want to keep the surface in good condition and not too rutty, in hopes we can use it again.

[mievil]

*Edited due to new information*

[woodrufj]

I don't think my WRX would be suited for this (it has high performance dry/wet tires; not intended for offroad).
I think your car is well suited for SS4 (stock 4wd). If the tires were any better for RallyX, you'd get bumped to the open class and probably really get trounced.



I need a co-drive
of my 6 cars the only one that wouldn't do terrible probably wouldn't pass safety and would certianly break.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[brian]

Sorry, no truck classes will be run at this event due to the surfaces we encounter. That includes your stock F150, or a SCORE Trophy Truck. The event organizers want to keep the surface in good condition and not too rutty, in hopes we can use it again.

that makes no sense. what does that mean.

[wales78]

Sorry, no truck classes will be run at this event due to the surfaces we encounter. That includes your stock F150, or a SCORE Trophy Truck. The event organizers want to keep the surface in good condition and not too rutty, in hopes we can use it again.

Bummer. So my friend can't run his Ford Ranger 2WD in one of the car classes?

[JamesWilson]

The event organizer has decided after pre-running the course in both a Rally 4wd and a modified 4wd Truck that the use of trucks at this event would be detremental to the integrity of the course and racing surface. That is his decision, and will hold as long as we are running at Del Mar. This is a modified rule only specifically for this event. Also, keep in mind that this is not on an abandoned field-- it is a spare training lot and track for the horse racers, and we musn't "tear up" the track more than necessary.

[frosty]

Well, if the ground is both soft enough that trucks might make ruts yet is fairly flat, then I have a bit more confidence in using my own car.

At the very least, it would be a fun one-off thing to do. Someone mentioned that this is a practice track for the horses. Does this mean we'll be dodging horse crap?

[jason]

that makes no sense. what does that mean.

Brian, http://www.enterprise.com

We can co-drive one of these: http://www.enterprise.com/car_rental/images/ico_car_economy_big.gif

[mievil]

Damn if I can't find a rental place who can reserve a Focus for me.:mad:

[frosty]

Damn if I can't find a rental place who can reserve a Focus for me.:mad:

You think you'd have a tough time? I don't think I'd be able to find a subaru, much less a WRX, from a normal rental place around here. Atleast you can find a car with a similar drive train (although it'll be auto).

[mievil]

Similar drivetrain as in a 4cyl. :p The rental would have less displacement and more weight, combined with being an autotragic. Of course an auto would have it's benefits, I'm having a hard time figuring if it'd be best to rent, or just shut up and drive the marshmallow.

[paul]

ah sweet, i'll have to roll up to shoot this!

[JamesWilson]

Paul--

Look for our "Rallye Fiero", it'll probably be the only one :-)

[awesom-o]

This looks like one of the best things ever!!!
Unfortunately I'll be out of town. Are there plans for another one?

I wish I still had my Suzuki Samarai :(

[paul]

Don't worry, there will be lots of photos... Just hope i can get a good vantage point


Paul--

Look for our "Rallye Fiero", it'll probably be the only one :-)

[JamesWilson]

Paul--

Word has it we have use of an elevated grandstand which will be able to see the entire course. I'm sure we can set up other photographer areas, and it will be nice as there will be less dust to skew a shot.

[wolfgang]

I've never seen one of these events. What's the track surface like? Will your car get mangled doing this? I am a little wary about bringing a Carrera 4 to an event like this if it's going to screw it up... Am I an idiot for even considering it or is this OK? :cool:

:eek: Steve save it for the asphalt. I certainly wouldn't think of taking the vette out there! Was thinking of taking the Frontier out with street tires but I guess that is out. It sounds like we are betting a dead horse, but tires should be the limiting factor not type of vehicle!:rolleyes:

Karl

[frosty]

I've seen pictures of Porsches rallying before. That said, the newest model was a 944, which is rather old.

I understand their reasons for not wanting trucks on the course. It bums me out a little that I can't take the vehicle I've offroaded in the most (I pulled some crazy stuff in that, like going up hill sideways b/c it was RWD without limited slip).

If you really want to go out there, do like what some of the other guys are doing: rent a car. :D

[paul]

Sounds good. I've got a bit of reach on one of the lenses but I'm always interested in getting the proper angles to get interesting shots. Autox hasn't always been easy since I don't generally ask for a spotter and so I stay off the course completely rather than within. I'll make the best of any opportunity that's out there.

[MX5bob]

:eek: Steve save it for the asphalt. I certainly wouldn't think of taking the vette out there! Was thinking of taking the Frontier out with street tires but I guess that is out. It sounds like we are betting a dead horse, but tires should be the limiting factor not type of vehicle!:rolleyes:

Karl

911s were used as rally cars in the past, but that was few decades ago. :D

[mievil]

Will there be anyone there that may have a loaner helmet for use? I've got a buddy that wants to ride along with me and the only one he's got is merely DOT certified. Please let me know. Thanks.

[2manycones]

Hi everyone. Very glad to read about all of the interest this event is generating. I hope to be part of a really fun event and potentially exciting series for 2006. Thanks to all of you in advance for being part of this!

Ok, in a very short period of time, this thread has opened up some false impressions, false expectations and FALSE information! The official website is the source for up to date info and will undoubtedly be revised and updated in the days prior to the event date. So, use it for your source of information on this event. Now, the CRS rules will be used as a "guideline" but not as the do all say all to how we will run this event. I am writing the supplementary regulations this weekend and should be online by Monday. This will address any pertinent revisions to the rules/limits that we will recognize for this event.

For starters, the course site is a sandy, rock/gravel free surface. I expect it will rut fairly quickly but we have a water truck and surface grader to smooth things out as needed. At a minimum, we will be surfacing the course after each run group. I expect to have 4-run groups through out the day with the 2wd classes running first then 4-wheel drive and trucks at the end.

Secondly, TRUCKS/SUV'S are very welcome at this event! I don't know where that misconception came from..... Matter of fact that post needs to be deleted. All trucks/SUV’s/pre-runners will be run in one class for this event. We will be taking close note of the turnout for each class to use for reference if/when more events are sanctioned this year. Now, any vehicle that has been raised will be up for debate on weather or not it is safe to run relative to a high center of gravity. If it is raised excessively with 35's, don't show up with it. If it is a functional "pre-runner" designed for desert racing/cruising, it should be fine. All stock trucks/SUV's will be permitted to run. Cages are not required.

This event will be run very similar to a national lever Solo 2 (Autocross) event. We are setting up an online Pre-Registration (Myautoevents.com) for all to use. We will also have walk-up registration at the event. The pre-reg helps to expedite the process of contestant date input to the timing/scoring system and improve the processing of entrants on the day of the event. If you are sure to make the event, please use it!

More info to come soon on the website: http://www.dirtye30.com/sdrally.html

Thanks!

Bret Norgaard

[2manycones]

Will there be anyone there that may have a loaner helmet for use? I've got a buddy that wants to ride along with me and the only one he's got is merely DOT certified. Please let me know. Thanks.

Loaner helmets will be available. The user must provide a current dirvers liscense to be held in exchange for a helmet. Drivers in each run group will have priority in the use of helmets.

[mievil]

Loaner helmets will be available. The user must provide a current dirvers liscense to be held in exchange for a helmet. Drivers in each run group will have priority in the use of helmets.

Good to know. Thanks.

I edited the posts I made regarding cage usage. Sorry.

[2manycones]

http://photobucket.com/albums/c38/2manycones/Del%20Mar_%20SD%20Rally%20Cross/

Log in to photobucket.com to view my album of the event site/surface.

Bret

[2manycones]

911s were used as rally cars in the past, but that was few decades ago. :D

There will be NO Escuses!!! (says with German accent) Run it! :D
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c38/2manycones/PorscheC4.jpg

~Bret

[frosty]

There will be NO Escuses!!! (says with German accent) Run it! :D

I think symantix should get giant mudflaps like that 911 has.

[JamesWilson]

Bret-

Jay had told me he did not want trucks in the event, so I was just going off of what he told me in person. Bret, you are the final say :D

[nik]

I'm in. Now should I drive the MR2 or sneak away with my mother's PreRunner? Oh wait that's going in for a recall that day... MR2 it is!! :eek:

Is this going to be a regular thing? I'm wondering if I should splurg on some more appropriate tires or just run what I've got.

[2manycones]

FYI:
Just met with the event manager for Del Mar this afternoon. Nice guy who is all for helping us put on a great event. He is helping to organize all of the various details such as signs (including the big displays at the entrances to the Fairgrounds), bleachers, etc. Anyway, J. Farina and I spent some time testing out the surface and it seems to be really good! There is a top layer of silty-sand with a foundation of harder clay. I think with the course design I have the lot should hold up decently. We are prepared to groom it as needed through out the day.

We will have a concessions vendor there, Event Sponsor booths/displays, and porta-johns. We plan to pit everyone around the horse track and we will have a pre-grid set up on the infield east of the course.

~Bret

[Sellout]

Oh! Sounds like fun! I think I'll bring my stock 97 Miata and see if my friend will bring his MR2.
Or would that just be a terrible idea to bring FR (edit: MR2=MR, how did I forget that?) cars like that to a rallycross?

[woodrufj]

Oh! Sounds like fun! I think I'll bring my stock 97 Miata and see if my friend will bring his MR2.
Or would that just be a terrible idea to bring FR cars like that to a rallycross?
Not ideal, but when has that ever stopped any of us. I'm sure there will be plenty of RWDs there.

BTW, MR2... Not a FR.:D

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[nik]

Not ideal, but when has that ever stopped any of us. I'm sure there will be plenty of RWDs there.

BTW, MR2... Not a FR.:D

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

MR also does better at rally than FR:p It has the same advantages of FF.

Are you still looking for a co-drive?

[woodrufj]

1.) MR ...has the same advantages of FF.

2.) Are you still looking for a co-drive?
1.) Well, some of the same advantages. But I think the big one is having drive wheels steer.

2.) I thought you'd never ask. You still looking for a paid entry?:D


Word of wisdom to all the autoXers: put your valve stem caps back on.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[nik]

2.) I thought you'd never ask. You still looking for a paid entry?:D

Whatever the standard arrangment is. I don't expect my car to be too competitive since its SoloII stock setup is rallyx street modified and I only have pavement suited tires. It should be fun though:eek:

[2manycones]

To all,

The SDRC should have the online registration up some time today. It should really help speed up the process on the morning of the event day. Supplementary regulations and clarification of vehicle allowances will also be up on the web site today. Keep and eye on the site.

Anyone who would like to volunteer some additional help is always appreciated! I am looking for 4 people in different run groups to do some "up beat" announcing and some others to help run the grid, starters, and keep and eye on any downed cones. The grid will be a new concept for the So Cal rallycross folks and I would like to have some people there to help direct the cars in and out of the grid spots. In general, this event will be pretty relaxed and should move along fairly smoothly.

All interested in volunteering, please email me at manycones2003@yahoo.com.
I am putting together a "worker" list this week.
Thanks!

Bret

[ikakitani]

Whatever the standard arrangment is. I don't expect my car to be too competitive since its SoloII stock setup is rallyx street modified and I only have pavement suited tires. It should be fun though:eek:

My car Evo8 is completely Solo2 setup. On rallyX, I just changed coilover setting to be 1 inchi higher than AutoX setting and to be softer damper setting. And my tire is cheap PEPBOY brand stock tire. Last year, I went to 2 different locations RallyX event Corona and Glen Hellen. It was much fun although my car setting was solo2 setting. I think no special parts necessary for this rallyX because new SD RallyX track surface is very flat and hard packed dirt.

I hope lots of AutoXer will come to RallyX.

[zads]

"Any car with sound levels monitored over 93 decibels will be disqualified."

Does this mean you are disqualified from the event (and doing any more runs), or just disqualified from points/scoring?
I haven't autocrossed the car I'm bringing, and I'm unsure of how loud it is... :confused:

[2manycones]

"Any car with sound levels monitored over 93 decibels will be disqualified."

Does this mean you are disqualified from the event (and doing any more runs), or just disqualified from points/scoring?
I haven't autocrossed the car I'm bringing, and I'm unsure of how loud it is... :confused:

Hi,
Working on clarifying this topic for the supplementary rules and regulations that will be available on the web page. This is a tuff thing to enforce reasonably because unlike the San Diego Solo 2 evnets, this rallycross venue accumulates all of the run times. The db will be measured @ a distance of 50'. A vehicle measured at or above the 93db limit during first or second runs will receive a warning and the car/exhaust/intake must have a mechanical change of some type to reduce the noise level. If the car is close (92dp) it is obvious that it could go over the limit and you will be notified.... Especially as the driver pushes harder run after run. Popping the sound meter on the the third run may end your hopes of a any contention but lets not let it get to this point. In the first two runs you should be aware of what needs to be done. And to answer you question specifically, a car that hits 93db a second time after a warning is DQ'd (no more runs). Directional changes of exhaust tips are not acceptable. Obvious lifting off the accelerator as a car passes or short shifting the car to lower rpm is considered un-sportsman like conduct and will be up for disqualification as deemed by the event staff. Now, all of that sounds pretty harsh and nobody likes being put in a situation to have to enforce something like this. But, the reasoning is simple. We want to have the option to come back to this event site! Some in the general community of Del Mar have been notorious to protest Motorsport events at the fairgrounds. It takes far less people to complain and be herd than to support it. So, general rule of thumb; if it’s loud slap a muffler on it or resonator (in-line or tip) before you arrive. We are under the same limits when running Autocross events at Qualcomm stadium. A little ingenuity can go a long way and not cost much. Help us to help you to have a fun place to play! Oh, and another thing, we hope to have a 4-run per driver event. It will be split up into two runs in the morning, two runs in the afternoon. So there will be some down time in between to get the car nice an quiet. Got it? Good.

[brian]

this is gonna sound like a stupid question but are shocks required for the rear? i'm currently without shocks at the moment, but i do have rather stiff leaf springs.

[woodrufj]

this is gonna sound like a stupid question but are shocks required for the rear?You're right, that does sound stupid.

Just driving to the hardware store without shocks is dangerous, I've been there.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[Bimota Guy]

If the car is close (92dp) it is obvious that it could go over the limit and you will be notified....
At the risk of having another one of "those sound threads" I suggest you give a warning at 90dBA. Why? Because despite what the people who understand the math - but not the nature of sound - think, it takes about a 10dB difference to perceive something to be "twice as loud." A 3dB is a doubling mathematically on a log scale, but not to the human ear (i.e., our perception of sound levels.) To perhaps put this more in persepctive, a 2dB differential is about the lower limit of even noticing something is louder/quieter than something else.

[frosty]

Stiffer springs should almost make it worse (but maybe not). If you get one really good bounce in your rear is going to be going up and down by several inches for the rest of the race.

[MX5bob]

At the risk of having another one of "those sound threads" I suggest you give a warning at 90dBA. Why? Because despite what the people who understand the math - but not the nature of sound - think, it takes about a 10dB difference to perceive something to be "twice as loud." A 3dB is a doubling mathematically on a log scale, but not to the human ear (i.e., our perception of sound levels.) To perhaps put this more in persepctive, a 2dB differential is about the lower limit of even noticing something is louder/quieter than something else.
But human perceived differences are frequency dependent and the average of what seems to be twice as loud can be less than 10db. Criticism of the dbA scale is based on its weighting toward higher frequencies. Why? Because it takes less energy of any kind to make a higher frequency sound louder than a lower frequency sound.

Besides the current science, there are efforts underway to more accurately measure how loud automobiles are. At the moment, this has nothing to do with us. But, if there is a big change in how the USDOT looks at automotive sound levels, it could have repercussions for all of the grassroots motorsports that compete within earshot of residential areas.

[Bimota Guy]

Must...resist...replying...oh, well. :D :p



But human perceived differences are frequency dependent
and the average of what seems to be twice as loud can be less than 10db.
Hence, I stated "about 10dBA."

Criticism of the dbA scale is based on its weighting toward higher frequencies. Why? Because it takes less energy of any kind to make a higher frequency sound louder than a lower frequency sound.

Well then, the criticism is off the mark since the energy is NOT the issue with human hearing (annoyance is...at least in this discussion) and that is what the A-weighted scale is all about. And you stated in your explanation of the criticism that something at higher frequencies will seem twice as loud even if less than 10dB higher...at that frequency. (Although I am unclear if you are endorsing the criticism or just stating others?)



Besides the current science, there are efforts underway to more accurately measure how loud automobiles are. At the moment, this has nothing to do with us. But, if there is a big change in how the USDOT looks at automotive sound levels, it could have repercussions for all of the grassroots motorsports that compete within earshot of residential areas.
Ugh...

[brian]

yes, i realize the ride sucks however can i compete?

[2manycones]

yes, i realize the ride sucks however can i compete?

Brian,
No, you can not compete with a vehicle that is missing shocks. It is not even legal to drive/tow a vehicle on public roads missing a major and vital component such as shocks.

[brian]

i would hardly consider stock ranger shocks as "major" or "vital" to the suspension.

[woodrufj]

Shocks keep the wheel in contact with the ground. Even cheap ones are both major and vital.

I'll ask the obvious question. Why don't you just bolt them in? Or buy some cheepies and bolt those in. Shock mounts on pick up are real easy to get a wrench on and would take all of ten minutes.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[brian]

it took approximately 5 pounds of force to compress the stock shocks when i took them off. and they were taken off due to a new set of leaf pack installed to go along with some bigger shocks a la bedcage. of course this "little" project has been going on for quite some time now and won't be ready for this saturday. the old shock mounts were torched off. but since my question has been answered, i'll look for another vehicle....maybe with some shocks on them.

[zads]

Brian, like people said before- rent a car.

Anyone have a sound meter I can borrow before Sat. so I have some idea how loud my car is?

[paul]

Gallery Here. (http://www.cchanphotography.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=slideshow%3ASlideshow&g2_itemId=310&g2_return=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cchanphotography.com%2F gallery2%2Fv%2Fadmin%2FDSC_0364.jpg.html%3Fg2_imag eViewsIndex%3D1&g2_xx=%27exp%27&g2_assign=%27yy%27&g2_yy=%2722%27&g2_returnName=photo)

click on the + and select a faster scroll speed.

[jason]

Nice pics, only thing wrong with them is I don't see one of the F150 we were driving. :(

The event was a lot of fun. Nothing like driving the crap out of a rented pickup with 5 helmet-covered heads bouncing around inside. :D

[paul]

I just uploaded them. I shot over 1500 frames today, so I picked/choosed the ones that stuck out.

http://www.cchanphotography.com/images/DSC_0794.jpg
http://www.cchanphotography.com/images/DSC_0945.jpg
http://www.cchanphotography.com/images/DSC_0946.jpg

[jason]

Awesome, thanks!

[brian]

haha, that is comical.

[nik]

Do you have any more of the blue mr2?

[woodrufj]

So when are you guys ready for some constructive critisim?

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[RandyC]

*gets popcorn*

[mpheinitz]

Do you have any more of the blue mr2?

Drop me an email and I'll send you the originals...

-Mike

[mpheinitz]

Do you have any more of the blue mr2?

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3821/nikmr2024vp.jpg
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/322/nikmr25md.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2560/nikmr2036tn.jpg :D

-Mike

[nik]

Thanks, that last one's awesome, even if the run was horrible, that picture makes it worth it!:D

[rjung]

Thanks to Bret for putting together a great event - cool prizes too!

[mievil]

So when are you guys ready for some constructive critisim?

Jay W
505/287 Dakota


Right now! :) I'm pretty darn sure I was just pushing way too hard, and I'm still running on junked 3 year old stock tires. But I'm always game for help via constructive criticism. :D

Thanks from me to everyone. Especially the organizers, but definitely everyone. I not only had a blast driving, but thoroughly enjoyed watching everyone flogging everything. Especially, the 17 cone EVO (almost the most awesome thing I've ever seen) and the two wheel Silverado. It was especially cool to walk around the outside and watch all the different viewing angles. Anyways, thanks again everyone.

[JamesWilson]

We broke the Fiero right away after only one lap...threw the wp/alt belt and then exploded a coolant tube, so I jumped into an old acquaintance's rally-prepped Mazda RX-7.

I'll have to go through the entire slideshow when I have time, but if anyone has photos of the white old '83 RX-7 (the only one), let me know!

-JW

[mpheinitz]

James,

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9254/img05022wm.jpg


-Mike

[paul]

http://www.cchanphotography.com/gallery2/v/misc_rallyx/?g2_navId=x71534e4d

For MR2, Focus, and RX7

[nik]

Thanks!!11one!!1(let me post... character limit arg!!)

[nalbar]

We broke the Fiero right away after only one lap
-JW


Hey look,

James broke ANOTHER car!


;)




nalbar

[dirtmonkey]

Gallery Here. (http://www.cchanphotography.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=slideshow%3ASlideshow&g2_itemId=310&g2_return=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cchanphotography.com%2F gallery2%2Fv%2Fadmin%2FDSC_0364.jpg.html%3Fg2_imag eViewsIndex%3D1&g2_xx=%27exp%27&g2_assign=%27yy%27&g2_yy=%2722%27&g2_returnName=photo)

click on the + and select a faster scroll speed.


Do you have more of the silver WRX wagon shown in pic DSC_0773?:D :D

[gilbrock]

Hi, can you please provide more pics of the Silver 2 door subaru that you have as the thumbnail pic on your gallery?

Thanks so much!!!

Eli

[Chas]

It was a lot of fun. Hopefully there are more events at Del Mar. My friend Jake was out on the track taking photos, he should be getting on here and post them soon.

[woodrufj]

Actually I was talking to the organizers. I don't know any more about driving in the dirt than you do, and I think 95% of the driver's out there were in the same boat.

Anyways, to James, Bret et. al:
I think you guys did a fantastic job setting up the event. New venue, new sport and new drivers is a trifecta of complexity. I really enjoyed my first runs in the dirt.

BUT, several things could have gone better, and I think you know most of them.
1.) Course. Yes it was a good course. But the second you realized we had more than 40 entrants it should have been changed to be a point to point instead of the 85sec 100% loop back. Something simple like start at the loop, go around 1.5 times then do the rest of the course and finish at the same finish line. This would have be about a 55sec course, but you could send cars every 30sec instead of every 90. Give everyone 6runs instead of 3 and you still would have gotten done hours earlier.

2.) Run format. Sucked out loud. To summarize for the spectators; the drivers were broken into 3 groups. Group 1 went first and took two runs. Group 2 went and took two runs. Group 3 went and took three runs. Group 1and 2 were mixed and took 1 more run each. This might not sound bad, but after arriving at 7:30 and getting put in group 2, I took my first two runs at noon and my final run after 5pm. Everyone else in the first two groups had an even larger time gap than I did. Because of the accumulative nature of Rally timing, you had to take all three runs to get a complete score. A lot of Group 1 and 2 people went home before their last run anyways. I really don't understand the reasoning for doing it that way. If we weren't sure everyone could get three runs in, then how about just score two runs, go through all the groups then do X runs at the end.

3.) Work/Run. For being a 'non-work' event, you guys sure needed a lot of workers. Either make it a work/run, or get a bigger 'crew'. A bigger crew could be had by picking 15 people before hand and giving them $15 discounts in trade for their labor. Only cost you $225 and you could keep the 'non-work' nature of the event.

Like I said above, I think you guys did very well for an inaugural event. Take the advice as you will.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

So when are you guys ready for some constructive critisim?

Right now! :) I'm pretty darn sure I was just pushing way too hard, and I'm still running on junked 3 year old stock tires. But I'm always game for help via constructive criticism.

[gilbrock]

I wanted to also announce that a few items were stolen from me and my friend in the drivers' pit area, on the far east end of the horse track.

It was a leather Puma bag with a digital camera in it, my running shoes, and jacket were all taken some time between 3-5:00 PM. The bag was black and white, and the shoes were Sauconys (I think), the jacket Member's Only (no jokes please). Digital camera was a Sony I believe. If it were all my stuff, no big deal. But the camera and bag belonged to my friend who just got back from Iraq a few weeks ago. I think there are pics on there from Iraq he wasn't able to offload before it was stolen, but we aren't certain. This totally sucks, and now I have to buy all this stuff for him new because I put the bag there in my haste, and didn't come get it once I was done with my runs.

Please let me know at darthgilb@yahoo.com if you know anything. Thanks

Eli

[woodrufj]

I wanted to also announce that a few items were stolen...That sucks. I think making this a work/run event would also increase the quality of people that attend.

Did the Evo shift knob get returned? I hope if you guys made any kind of profit that you pay the dealer for the knob and beg for their continued sponsorship.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[wales78]

I believe someone also stole the shift knob from the dealer's new Evo. I've never heard of a theft at a Qualcomm autocross. I wonder why thieves were drawn to this particular event?

[frosty]

I wanted to also announce that a few items were stolen from me and my friend in the drivers' pit area, on the far east end of the horse track.

It was a leather Puma bag with a digital camera in it, my running shoes, and jacket were all taken some time between 3-5:00 PM. The bag was black and white, and the shoes were Sauconys (I think), the jacket Member's Only (no jokes please). Digital camera was a Sony I believe. If it were all my stuff, no big deal. But the camera and bag belonged to my friend who just got back from Iraq a few weeks ago. I think there are pics on there from Iraq he wasn't able to offload before it was stolen, but we aren't certain. This totally sucks, and now I have to buy all this stuff for him new because I put the bag there in my haste, and didn't come get it once I was done with my runs.

Please let me know at darthgilb@yahoo.com if you know anything. Thanks

Eli


That was another bit of utter crap from the event. There was way too much theft. Not only this, but the bit about someone stealing the shift knob off the Evo MR that was brought out and put on display.


It's not like every teenager out there is rotten, but it's like the bigger pool of teenagers you get together, the more likely one is going to do stupid things like this. I've known "friends" who did that in High School, and when they wouldn't return the (atleast) $60 in merchandise they stole, I left their ass an hour from home.

There were a lot of teenagers there. A few of them seemed to be bringing whatever random car they had because they heard that there was dirt racing going on (I even saw one offer a coordinator $100 to let him run, and this was at 2 pm).

[mievil]

Not addressing the MR issue, but would it have possibly helped the pit thefts if both sides of the pit would have been blocked off to spectators? I know it would be mildly difficult to enforce, but since everyone was allowed to walk to and from the pits from both sides, maybe a limited access may have helped, as in you only enter if your running.

The back side of the actual track/pit area was pretty well hidden from a stardard viewing point, so access to and from with other people's gear would have been pretty easy. Of course as was mentioned above, spectators are allowed all over the pit areas at the Q as well, so I don't know.

We'd be pretty hard pressed to say that it was a competitor that was walking off with everything, since there were spectators walking in and out, and even driving in and out of that area all day long. It's hard to say who could have done it.

Just thinking out loud.

[froggy47]

The pit area at that venue makes it hard to "park near your buddies" which is what I usually try to do at the Q. At Fontana I don't think you get many "spectators" as it's a bit out of the way.

Not sure what to suggest at Del Mar, but someone smarter than me should address any theft problem. How about getting a black & white to visit while on their rounds?

Maybe take a run at the course:)

[JamesWilson]

Yes, theft was an issue...inventory of a few items we had at our "Trackside Store" showed we are "missing" a few things, as well as the Mitsubishi knob and Eli's bag. Not to make generalizations, and this is separate and apart from the company of which I represent, but the Gravel Crew crowd are a little bit "different" from the SCCA people we are used to, on the young side, and have more of a "hooligan atmosphere" at their events --- some say to promote more fun than competition, but at the same time we need to keep our events safe and theft-free to make them more appealing to the "mainstream racers" of the 30+ crowd. That being said, I hope that as/if we have more RallyCross events here in San Diego that they (the events) will mature as time goes on, all while still having fun in the dirt.

Other commentary on the event proved to be true as well, and the shortcomings of the run groups and structure are well known and probably only implemented because that is what the Gravel Crew racers are used to.....not because we thought it would work (it didn't), but not to confuse the "regulars" who are used to multiple-hour delays, zero announcements, and zero results. As more events happen (if they do) in the future, these things may or probably will be streamlined into a better structure.

Course design was excellent all things considered, surprised we got a good length course out of such a small area. I think that due to the amount of entries it killed our daily time constraints, but if we only had 50 drivers as expected it would have been perfect.

Hat's off to Bret, J. Farina, Neil Kuhns, and the Dave Turner Motorsports guys for allowing this event to happen! A bad day of racing is still better than a good day at work/lawn/to-do lists.......

[gilbrock]

BTW< the Gravel Crew didn't have anything to do with this event. This was organized and run solely by J Farina, Bret Norgaard, and some SCCA members.

[mievil]

How about getting a black & white to visit while on their rounds?

Maybe take a run at the course:)


How awesome would that be. A couple Crown Vics playing in the dirt with their lights on. That'd be freaking sweet.

On the security note, I did see a security guy in a Cherokee driving around the course while I was wandering around. :dunno:

How many racers were there total anyway? I guessed around 75, but it felt like there were more.

[dirtmonkey]

Yes, theft was an issue...inventory of a few items we had at our "Trackside Store" showed we are "missing" a few things, as well as the Mitsubishi knob and Eli's bag. Not to make generalizations, and this is separate and apart from the company of which I represent, but the Gravel Crew crowd are a little bit "different" from the SCCA people we are used to, on the young side, and have more of a "hooligan atmosphere" at their events --- some say to promote more fun than competition, but at the same time we need to keep our events safe and theft-free to make them more appealing to the "mainstream racers" of the 30+ crowd.

I don't get it?:confused:
Are you saying the Gravel Crew stole the stuff?
The Gravel Crew's presence at an event they were not organizing emboldened random thieves?:confused:
Could you elaborate?

[Chas]

(I even saw one offer a coordinator $100 to let him run, and this was at 2 pm).



That was my friend, he just really wanted to race... Now I don't know what you have against my younger friends, but I wonder if you noticed who was marshalling the course the entire day? Three of my teenage friends marshaled the course from 1-close, one also took hundreds of professional photos for the group. And what is so wrong with kids showing up with their cars to race? Don't you want the sport to grow? I was attending scca events when I was 13, so whets the deal?

I have nothing against you, but I don't like the fact you are saying teenagers are the cause of the problems. I saw PLENTY of sketchy adults there. I have never had a problem with any of my friends, or friends' friends at the drift events we attend. So I do not know what the problem is.

I think the pits should be separate from the spectators, always. I do not like it when I come off the track hot and try to get back to my pit spot, only to get into traffic on the way back.

[frosty]

How awesome would that be. A couple Crown Vics playing in the dirt with their lights on. That'd be freaking sweet.

That'd be awesome.

As noted by Chas, keeping the spectators seperate from the pit would have been a good idea. I felt like I ran into two problems in pit: 1) random spectators were walking around my unguarded stuff and 2) I couldn't find a spot to pit after my first run group.

If they parked in another area of the loop or near by and walked back, that might have made it more secure.

To address Chas's comments:
No I am not a teenager hater. I won't even go so far as to say that am an old guy with all this wisdom (only 23). You mentioned the shagging of cones: more people should have been out there; I was. I was the crazy-looking person trying to flag down the racer who almost had a head-on collision with the nut who went on the course the wrong way.

It's not all teenagers: I thought I made myself clear. But growing up, there seemed to be this point where if you got enough together, there was a good chance something minor / major might happen (teenager / young adult). You may very well be mature. Your friends may well be too. You can't say that all people that age are though (though, not my age either). But if there was some group that seemed to stand out that normally aren't at Qualcomm doing autox, it was teenagers. Witchhunt or not, I do not know. :confused:

[mievil]

I seriously doubt that anyone is pointing the finger at any certain group of people or any specific demographic. You guys have to remember that this is the internet, and it becomes malevolent if anyone tries to assume someone is talking smack. :)

[sidewindr]

Be careful what you post on a public forum, especially when you represent a store/company.

Lets see who's representing the Gravel Crew that day:
George Scott (who won the Rally4 Class and best time of the day)
Bristol (Gravel Girl)
Mark Gardner and Jack Maranto both have Gravel Crew Stickers on their cars.
I believe thats it.
Most of us ran in Gravel Crew organized GcRallyX series, but are not associated with Gravel Crew. Whether it was Corona or San Bernardino, we never had a case of theft.

[Chas]

I think there problems with any large group of people, regardless of age.

Next time, lets just keep things seprate from the spectators. The store should have been more closely watched.

[frosty]

I don't think it would be a member of an organized group like the Gravel Crew (hadn't heard of them before, but hadn't rallyed before). I don't think it would have been a member of the regular autox people. That sort of leaves it to whoever (old or young; spectator or racer) who was there at the event who wasn't part of a regular racing group.




I seriously doubt that anyone is pointing the finger at any certain group of people or any specific demographic. You guys have to remember that this is the internet, and it becomes malevolent if anyone tries to assume someone is talking smack.

And yes, please no flame war.

[Chas]

I was not trying to start a flame war.

Besides the theft, I think the event went pretty well.

I think that there should be a few things done differently next time

1. Seperate the crowd and pits(as said before)
2. Start and finish different, this way we can have more cars running at once.
3. Use the whole infield.
4. Hire one or two security gaurds. I would gladly pay an extra 5-10 bucks for one.
5. Organize the run groups better.
6. Work/Run needs to be figured out.

[brian]

theives have been running rampant lately. california needs to get rid of some of it's frivolous lawsuit bull****. you steal anything, you should be liable to get shot.

[JamesWilson]

OOOOOOOOOHHKAAAAAAY
Let's all take a deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep breath and calm ourselves down and read a little more slowly and carefully before we shoot our mouths (fingers?) off.

1) NO ONE was saying that the Gravel Crew as an organization had anything to do with a) the event, b) and theft or accusations of theft, or c) anything related to this event other than a loose adaptation of their Rules and Classing, or any negative connotations other than comparisions to past events.

2) Once again, my personal opinions in NO WAY represent my company, as originally stated. This was also not "my" event, but my company did sponsor the event and hopefully contributed to its existence at least by a financial standpoint. I am proud to be a part of it, and I apologize if despite my best efforts and clear, bold typing makes anyone think that Dave Turner Motorsports dislikes the events we sponsor or happily race in. I cannot control your own personal assumptions, so everyone else can just re-read this paragraph until it finally sinks in.

3) As myself a wee lad of 23 years, I was merely noting the overall age demographic of "most" of the GCRallyX events, of which I attend semi-regularly as well. GENERALLY our San Diego Region autocrosses are comprised of those in the 30-90 age group, and then some that are 16-30, like myself. With age comes a certain level of responsibility, speaking both in terms of the Competitors AND of the events as a whole, though this is not always true, I will use it here as a generalization. While being of the younger crowd is not a bad thing in itself (again, I'm 23), the EXPERIENCE that San Diego Region and Cal Club Region autocrossers (as individuals and an organization) brings to an event shows occassionally a little more structure, responsibility, and class. While I am NOT SAYING that the Gravel Crew people/attendees do not exhibit these traits, as an OBSERVER and PARTICIPANT (of both series) I was merely relaying my experiences. Defend yourselves with words and proper citation, not with sMaK taLk and yelling. And yes, this is coming from a 23-year-old with no college degree. I had a lot of fun at both the GCRallyX events and the San Diego RallyCross, as well as the local SCCA Solo2 events. Yes, they were and are all run differently to meet the needs of their largest demographic group.

The only time when this becomes a PROBLEM is when antics like theft, "racing" away from the event venue, being unnecessarily loud in and around the event site (honking, revving, screaming), being over our 93db sound limit on-course, and immature action cut into our possibility of returning to the event site. Del Mar as a city is NOT TOLERANT of that type of behavior, whether is is from the Rolls Roye Club of America or a group of well-meaning racers doing a dirt event. My point is, actions like that need to be curbed for our events to continue. And if they don't change, then we either won't have them or they will be in remote areas like Chula Vista (bigger race space!! hurray!) where there is less public to annoy. This is not to target anyone, just know that we have to play nice if we want to be allowed to play.

4) THANK YOU to Bret, J., and the other helpers out there. If anything, a big thanks goes out to their hard work, and all who stepped up to help without even being asked. I don't care where you worked and where you came from or race with or your age or IQ or anything (for those keeping score), thanks for helping and your good work will not go unnoticed nor unrewarded in the future.

SOoooooooooooooooooooo kiddos no flames here, just observations and thanks.........

[woodrufj]

I think the root problem is the AutoX guys are lucky enough to live in a crime free zone, so we're too laxed in our personal sercuity, I know I usually am. Just remember to lock the stuff up. Security gaurd is just going to be a paid spectator.

If I ever catch someone attempting to steal something, I'll probably end up being the one in prision.

Here's something from the website that hasn't made it here yet. Everyone should know this is how we build good relationships with site owners, its everyones responsibility.


And all praise to the Del Mar Fairgrounds for letting us hold this event at such a great venue. They were so happy with how we all conducted ourselves and left ZERO trash around that they actually went through the trouble to come over from the offices and tell us how happy they were with us and say that we are welcome back any time. They said they had NEVER seen such a courteous crowd at any event. My hats off to you guys for that. As long as the neighbors feel the same way, we are good to go for future events.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[Chas]

Im glad del mar is happy. I live one exit down the freeway, so its great for me!

[mievil]

As long as the neighbors feel the same way, we are good to go for future events.



AWESOME!!!! :D

[frosty]

So here's the question that I bet many of us recent dirt-adicts are wondering:

When can I get more rallyx action next (either locally in del mar again or within a 2-3 hour driving range)?

[Pervis]

How many racers were there total anyway? I guessed around 75, but it felt like there were more.

My grid sheets had 23 in groups one and two with 36 in the third group. That makes 82 total but I thought there were one or two that I did not check off. preregistered no-shows maybe. So that makes 80 entries trying to get in 3 runs at 90 seconds (average) each all before dark. There were 250 runs loged in the computer when we wrapped up. That includes reruns.

So, 80 entries when 50 were expected, what looked like a 50 second course that takes 90 (OK Scotty, 75) seconds equals quite a scramble as sunset approaches. Next time we will start on time too...

And no, AXers don't live in a crime free zone. Remember the Roll-A-Way that did just that?

Thanks to all who helped :)

[Chas]

The next event is at Ridgecrest? (Near fontana)

I know they have them in temecula sometimes too. I overheard them saying four points events will be held at Del Mar

[frosty]

The next event is at Ridgecrest? (Near fontana)

I know they have them in temecula sometimes too. I overheard them saying four points events will be held at Del Mar

Is there a website (or series of them) that lists rallyx events in so. cal, or are we on our own to find out through word of mouth?

[Chas]

Im not sure, I will ask around. Check the Gravel Crew site too, as they have events.

[MarkA]

Is there a website (or series of them) that lists rallyx events in so. cal, or are we on our own to find out through word of mouth?

www.californiarallyseries.com

Full 2006 RallyX sched. should be out in roughly two weeks although additional DelMar events will probably still be pending at that time.

[MarkA]

The next event is at Ridgecrest? (Near fontana)

I know they have them in temecula sometimes too. I overheard them saying four points events will be held at Del Mar

Ridgecrest is nowhere near Fontana – but, more info is here: http://rallyusa.com/CRS%20School/crs_school.html

We have also never ran in/around Temecula, at least not legally but “word is”, there are some good “rally spots” people use to shakedown cars at but that’s not going to get posted here.

[Chas]

Thanks for the info. Its good to have some one who knows what they are talking about rather then this word of mouth stuff I hear.

[frosty]

www.californiarallyseries.com

Full 2006 RallyX sched. should be out in roughly two weeks although additional DelMar events will probably still be pending at that time.

Cool. Thanks.

[zads]

Regarding the security/theft issue, I see three viable options to alleviate/solve the problem (for personal stuff, at least):

1. Police officers, as said before- invite them to watch, take a free run, feed them lunch, whatever.. (anyone have friends in the SDPD?)

2. Del Mar Fairgrounds security/event people (bright yellow jackets). Sure, they will just watch the cars run, but if they stay around the back end of the pit area, it would probably deter some of the "opportunity theives".

3. Buddy up with someone in another run group. When you are running, you can stash your expensive cameras or setup gear in the back of your partner's car. (this could also work if we had the organizers run a "coat check" kind of thing for gear). I know it seems like a hassle and possibly paranoid/overkill, but I'd accept the hassle, for the safekeeping of a $300 digital camera, $100 camber gauge, etc,.





But anyway, the only things that I personally experienced that could use improvement was the course/run setup. One car out at a time isn't just slow for the competitors, it's slow for the spectators (some cars just aren't as spectacular as others), so you have to wait 90 seconds for the next one.




That being said, when is the next San Diego/Del Mar event?? Count me in!

http://www.cchanphotography.com/gallery2/d/629-2/CSC_9104.jpg
I love this picture.
Cone getting sand blasted = +1 spectator experience point

[frosty]

I know some people in law enforcement around SD. They are more of casual acquantances than close friends. If you have something specific in mind, I might be able to approach them and ask.

[dirtmonkey]

More wagon pics, please! :)

[Chas]

There will be a link to the photos later on my site. www.driftclub.net

[paul]

send me a PM for specific requests including the file name of the vehicle you want. I'll look them up tonight hopefully and get them out.

[paul]

Eli, check here... (uploading now) link (http://cchanphotography.com/g) Lots of photos of the car.. enjoy.


Hi, can you please provide more pics of the Silver 2 door subaru that you have as the thumbnail pic on your gallery?

Thanks so much!!!

Eli

[UrnsForMore]

www.californiarallyseries.com

Full 2006 RallyX sched. should be out in roughly two weeks although additional DelMar events will probably still be pending at that time.

fOR ANYONE INTERESTED IN GOING TO THIS RALLY SCHOOL I JUST LOOKED IT UP AND IT IS REALLY FAR AWAY ITS ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE SIERRA MOUNTAINS. I ENCOURAGE ALL TO GO BUT ITS JUST WAY TO FAR FOR ME.:cool: