An initiative to get a new venue built

[81MakoJ]

Alright since we've a possibility of losing our main venue I propose we try and get all of the motorsports participaters together and make an initiative to get a new venue built. Places I'd be thinking that would work well would be somewhere rural in Santee or around Miramar. We need to push a few facts with the city/county to have a chance of getting it built. First is the fact that it would bring tourism and income to the area by having motorsports there. Second, it would curb street racing by giving them a legal place to race safely. Third, we have to prove that there would be minimal to no environmental impact of the area. Fourth, we have to make sure it's in a place where annoying residents won't complain about noise. Last, we need get a big enough lobby to make sure we're noticed and campaign it accordingly. We need to gather all motorsport oriented clubs together and possibly form a commitee of representatives. If we can truly rally together I do think we can get a new venue built. We need to stress it being a SMALL motorsports venue that can support autocross and drag racing, mainly. Other events that could be supported would be the drifting competitions, shows (auto and RV shows), motorcycle club racing, and driving schools. I think we could really get things rolling if we get the support of such clubs/companies that participate in those types of events.

Our only opposition, that I can see, would be the annoying complainers about noise and environmentalists. However, we'll have the support of law enforcement, the fire department, private companies, and enthusiasts.

What really got me thinking about this was the recently rejected Proposition A. I think a plot of land near MCAS would be perfect because it'd be far enough away from residential areas and close to major freeways.

What do y'all think? I'd be more than willing to lend any help I can in making this possible and honestly think we could get it done, if we stick together.

[frosty]

In addition to getting the various racing groups, also see if you can get local driving instructors involved. I know there are some local performance driving instructors. Also, defensive driving instructors or even driver's training instructors might be interested.

This way you can pitch it not only as a place for drivers to race off the streets, but also as a place where driving instruction can take place to improve San Diego driver's ability to drive safely.

Do you know how big of a space you'd need? If you have a 1/4 mile drag strip (with staging area), and a parking lot with as much usable space as the West lot, that would be a good size (as both venues could be used simultaneously).

[cshodges]

Qualcomm is also used as a disaster shelter. 50,000 displaced citizens camped out there during the Crest fire. That will be going away when they bulldoze the Q. If your new facility has the ability to pick up that emergency use as well, it would definately earn brownie points with the city. In that respect, you might be looking at a full motorsports facilty, not just autox/drag.

[frosty]

What sort of requirements would a facility like that need? Large indoor space, or just a place where tents can be set up, and where there are plenty of bathrooms and other required facilities?

[ceosurfer]

Ideas like this can turn into great results with planning and action. What kind of support would you need from the San Diego student population. We here at the USDautoclub wouldl ike to help in anyway we can.

[itrbruce]

Along with the direction Scott was headed, you might also try to get the other (non-racing) groups that rent the Stadium parking lot to see if they could help contribute (some of those might also have some political pull).

[frosty]

Ideas like this can turn into great results with planning and action. What kind of support would you need from the San Diego student population. We here at the USDautoclub wouldl ike to help in anyway we can.

Maybe if we got local high schools and universities interested in either driving safety education or maybe local school competition (I'd lean towards an autox format due to it's relatively high safety record)?

Also, once this gets to the point of being a campaign of sorts, college students have proved to be very helpful in the past.

Bruce's idea is also good. Talk to anyone who would loose out by Qualcomm leaving or to gain from a Qualcomm replacement.

[cshodges]

Mazda and GM often run their driving exhibitions there. La Mesa RV does most of the RV shows. Not sure who runs the used-car shows.

Considering the last event at the Q, I don't know if you want to allow the drifting crowd -- at least, not unless they bring their own really good insurance policy.

For the emergency use... bathrooms and concessions primarily, I believe. The concession stands have kitchens. Also, Qualcomm has a rear entrance for VIPs and such, that in emergency situations is used for bringing in supplies and such without getting caught in the refugee traffic at the main gates.

Isn't there a mini-SEMA type show at Qualcomm once a year?

And what motorsports facility would be complete without a road coarse? :)

Of course, we may have to make compromises... it might be necessary to include an oval for NASCAR to make the place self-sustaining financially. :D

[81MakoJ]

Hopefully most of y'all read this before tomorrow. I'd like to possibly get together with some of you guys to sort of throw around ideas and see if we can possibly get a council of some sort together so we get hopefully get the ball rolling as soon as possible. I plan on stopping by sometime tomorrow to see how things are going and talk to some of the club leaders anyways, since I can't race due to my injuries. :( I'm hoping to get some people together that know how to propose these types of ideas to the city and gather support for it.

Anyways, I'll be around sometime tomorrow with my girlfriend in her goldish-tanned color Focus. I'll be in my back brace and on crutches so I'll be hard to miss. So if you see me come say hi so we can exchange info and such. I won't be working again until early december so I can probably do some research and such until then, anyways.

Oh and to address a few things mentioned. LOTS of excellent ideas from all of you. The amount of support I believe we can gather is pretty large so I don't see any reason for us to fail, honestly. What I had in mind for it would be a large flat blacktop with some built in facilities and a gate. Facilities would include a concession stand to serve the usual hamburgers, nachos, hotdogs, yadda yadda (think of the concession stand at the Santee drive-in). Built in bathrooms would be good, of course. One thing that we have to make sure about is that it can't be TOO big, NASCAR won't make it because we get enough complaints about noise already. So we have to limit it to just a large piece of black top with some facilities.

The reason I mentioned we could allow the drifting competitions is because, unlike qualcomm, we won't have lamp posts, traffic, porta-potties, and other things that made their competitions unsafe. We will definitely have to set certain guidelines for spectators to make sure stuff like that stays safe. I believe if we get enough safety stewards involved in the design and layout we can prove it to be a very safe venue for lots of different kinds of events.

I will research the space requirements and see how much area approximately we will need. One thing I'm sure some of you could tell me, though. How big are the lots that we've been renting from qualcomm? That would give me an idea of at least the minimum space we'd need. :D

[ceosurfer]

A few of us USD auto club members will be there tomorrow. Utilize us!

[frosty]

I won't be there tomorrow for a few reasons. Sorry.

One note on the Drifters is that lamp posts and other barriers weren't the only reason they had serious issues with crashes. If you look at the maps they used, they over-used the space (three courses in the north-east lot). I also remember a series of photos showing a 240sx (I think) drifting, then flipping right in the middle of nowhere. I don't know how they pulled that off. :confused:

But this is not to say I am against the drifters. As with Qualcomm, there will need to be some body or organization in charge of the space. They would be responsible for making fair time allowance to the different groups as well as insuring various noise and safety rules are followed and the day to day stuff of keeping the bathrooms clean and the burgers hot. Also, some semi-official group would need to be formed (maybe as a PAC?) and someone will need to be in charge.

[JamesWilson]

Not to throw a wrench in your plans, but ideas like this come up quite often. A few of us, some even that can heft the $$$ to actually make something happen (or at least greatly get the ball rolling), have done serious and expensive research and inquiries to do something like this as well.

Find a group of very influential people to insert the right ideas in the right direction, spend a million or two campaigning it, and spend tens of millions of dollars more 3-5 years later to actually get it done. Sadly, that is what it takes.

Our hearts are in the right place, but unfortunately the Sandlot stickball players rarely get the new baseball field.....unless you're handicapped and minorities. Have we got any of those? :) j/k

[RandyC]

To add to that last post. There have been these exact attempts. One was funded by Rubios money (as I understand it). They ran into some environmental hurdles and then ultimately, the fact that the land was owned by the US Military and they were told no. This refers to the land off 52 and Convoy.

One might have some luck going after an Indian Reservation. I hear of a track being built right now on one in our county. (yay!). But the problem is convincing them they need a parking lot this big. Most tracks like that start with a dirt lot because it is cheap. Maybe later they add some small amount of asphalt or gravel or both.

A real lot like Qualcomm, that is large enough to autocross on, will cost way over a million dollars. Now do the math. How many events per year and how much rent per event? Let's be generous and say you do 50 events a year and can charge $2000 per day. Let's say each event is a two day event. That is 100*$2000 or $200,000 revenue per year. It would take a number of years to pay for the lot grading. Add in cost of money. Cost of land. Insurance. Government fees. This is where it gets difficult to pencil out as making any sense, unless the lot had some other purpose.

And I am all for a multipurpose facility and I think that could pencil out to be feasible. Specially if it was close enough in (like Miramar). It would work best, the more things it could have. A kart track. Drag racing. Road course. Off road course. Small lake. Parking lot. Test facility. Garages for rent. Business rentals. But it will take a bit of money to get the ball rolling.

[81MakoJ]

Perhaps instead of the lot charging a flat fee of $2000 per day maybe there could be a flat fee of like $1000 plus some percentage of procedes, or something of that nature. An RV show could charge a simple 1% on profits made there and make over $5000 off of just one RV being sold there. If there's 50 events with $2000 - $10000 of profits coming in, the lot would be paid for pretty quickly. I can personally see 50+ events a year to be very feasible. Factor in that autocross events, not just ours, total over 30 per year, then there's racelegal.com and that's another 15 - 30 (maybe more since they like to do it every friday night that they can). Then factor in car shows (at least once a month so there's another 12), karting events (probably 3 or 4), then events that could be there during the weekdays like driving schools and such. Weekdays wouldn't charge as much but $400 - $500 a day for the weekends would still bring in another grip of cashflow for it. Now factor in the concession stand profits and the whole facility could be profitable within a year or two.

I forgot to mention that if we made it a government funded project, I think it could be even more possible. With the facts, issues, and support we can show the city I garauntee it could be fully possible. With qualcomm disappearing the city is going to be losing a major source of income, and it's already cash strapped. If we show the city that we can get them a quick and easy source of income that has an initial cost that isn't gargantuan, like a new stadium, we could easily have it built.

We really need to get on the city council asap, though. We need to make a proposal and do our research of costs and make a presentation to them of the possibilities. We should get it ready as soon as possible, but we can't jump to doing it right away. We have to wait until we find out what the Q's fate is, first. If the Q stays, we have to make a different approach. If we find out it's going to be bulldozed, we have to make an appointment for a presentation asap. The sooner we get on top of the council, the sooner we can possibly get something built.

Randy mentioned the reservations. I hadn't thought of that and that is indeed a VERY good idea. We could possibly get in to talks with the tribes about getting a venue built on their lands. The only problem we're going to have with that is that they aren't as central as Santee and Miramar, so travel time will be increased. The distance won't make it as marketable for some of the used car sales and such, but at least it'll still be markettable for events like the Rev-It-Up, Karts, autocross, Race Legal, and other race club events. The indian reservations wouldn't have to worry about the real estate costs, because they already "own" all of the land. They'd only have the costs of building and upkeep. However, it'd cost less for them to have it built, than any place else.

I'd really like to stress that it should be marketted as a small motorsports venue, to start. We should later present the possible future upgrades that could be done to it, like the test facility and garages that Randy mentioned. It could be marketted as something that should start as a small venue that can later be upgraded to a large motorsports facility that could possibly one day support something like NASCAR or maybe the American Le Mans. If it sounds like something that can quickly turn a profit and eventually grow in to a large profit, we can have sponsors lining up to be apart of it. Which brings me to another source of income...

Advertising! Companies would surely pay to advertise at this venue and that also brings in cash towards the cost of the venue which now you not only have events that are going to bring in money, but advertisers. With the combined cash flow of events and advertising it could be profitable earlier than a year after its opening.

As good as all of what I've said sounds, we really need to get some real numbers together to prove this, though. The most important fact we should push for it is the projected profits for it. I say we put it in front of the city council first and then the indian tribes. If the city doesn't wish to get its sorry rear out of the negative, surely the indian tribes would love to have another source of income flowing.

[JamesWilson]

Neighborhood Sound Control. Killed Carlsbad International Raceway. Even residents building houses within a few miles of Willow Springs are complaining to their councilpeople that the track is too loud and needs to go, even though the track was there first. You probably will not see any type of motorsports venue bigger than a kart track pop up West of the 67.

FWIW, there is a track actively being built (read: construction phase) up in North County near Pala, as well as www.racelandusa.com being built out in El Centro. I think with those nearby, it is going to be tough to market yet another track here in greater SD. Houses defeat racecars. The Indian reservations are great resources, as they have access to land and money and are interested in creating more revenue for their government. Viejas flatly refused, even after being seriously marketed by those in the NASCAR circle who would guarantee big-name events held there. Reason? Noise.

[rodger]

A few of us USD auto club members will be there tomorrow. Utilize us!
There's a USD auto club? More information please.

[kb58]

Ya know... this is the best idea I've seen in years. Use the former landfill area south of Miramar. I'll sign any needed petition.

[81MakoJ]

The former landfill area is probably one of our best hopes because it can't be used for anything of any income for the city. We have to get an overwhelming support for a venue in order for it to be possible. If there's a huge support for it the city cannot refuse because it has to do what is in the interests of the majority of the city. I would think even most senior citizens would be in favor of it because they hate street racers, too. If you get a grip of eligible voters in support of such an initiative/proposition, the city cannot refuse it.

Anyone checked out the zoning around the old landfill area? How close is the nearest residential area? If there isn't one within 5 - 10 miles, we won't have really any opposition for noise.

[Killdozer]

A few of us USD auto club members will be there tomorrow. Utilize us!
Wait what?
There's a USD auto club?
I'm glad I came lurking by this place at the right time.
Fire off an email to rarp@sandiego.edu when you get the chance.

[JamesWilson]

Miramar Landfill area cannot be utilized for several reasons, first of which is proximity to an active military base and the land adjacent and beneath it is owned by them. Second, the soil beneath is very unstable. Ever driven on the 52 Westbound? Caltrans has its engineering hands full with keeping the freeway from sinking, and environmental and engineering studies have shown that that area cannot support large surfaces of asphalt or concrete for worthwhile amounts of time.

EDIT-- neighborhoods of University City and North Clairemont are established residential areas since the 1950's. Environmental Impact reports are not promising to host a motorsports venue in a watershed area (Rose Creek, also joins with Tecolote Creek --> Mission Bay) that drains directly into the Pacific Ocean in Pacific Beach and La Jolla, very popular tourist beaches.

Again, much $$ has been spent on these studies (some of which I have been involved with). Petitions can't defeat engineering blocks.

I HATE to sound like such a downer, but a few years of studies and research has answered many of your questions. I am so glad that there is renewed interest every few years, but I think we should focus our attention to marketing our SCCA events to the two tracks that we know are being built right now in San Diego County and nearby areas. That is best time, energy, and hopefully not too much $$ spent.

-JW

[81MakoJ]

Do you really want to have to drive over an hour to race on the weekend? Then an hour back... Think about how much more it'll cost US the racers in gas by having to drive that far back and forth. I mean hell I'm lucky to get 20mpg in my '81 Vette right now and have a 24 gallon tank, but the people that race with those STis and Evos usually get like 15mpg and have a smaller tank. What about those that trailer their stuff in? A tank of gas is $30 - $80 and that'd be on top of the $25 - $35 we pay for each event. One of the things that brings so many people out to our events is the fact that it's so central and inexpensive. I know many participants come from all around the county, as far as Temecula, but the majority of us I believe live within a half hour of Qualcomm.

Alright so if the old landfill is impossible, why not a rural area of Santee? Santee is still relatively central and not that bad of a drive, overall. I need to get my hands on a physical map of san diego county...

[RandyC]

San Diego autocrossers are very fortunate in having a site that is so central. That is not normal for most of the country and most autocrossers drive a good distance to get to the sites. There are just not that many abandoned airfields in the middle of towns.

Most likely, a new site will not be close. That is a compromise we would have to get used to.

A good number of people that run Qualcomm come from much farther away including Los Angeles, and if you saw Mark Huffman run this weekend, he comes to a lot of our events and he lives in Phoenix.

[Andrew]

Yep. Up here in Sacramento, the commute for me to the closest autocross is 1 hour each way. Seems to be on par with the average commute time to events in the Bay Area.

San Diego Region is spoiled in this respect. Big lot, short travel distance. Enjoy it while you've got it.

Since it hasn't been said in a while, Soak City is a nice lot. You guys should be using it in the winter if the owners are still amenable to the idea.

[frosty]

I think it was a two hour drive for me when I was in the Chicago area, and I was in the first suburb north of Chicago.

Wasn't there at one point talk about a place waaaaay out around or past El Centro? Now if you want to talk about a not-fun drive to go racing, think of that during the summer. :D

[froggy47]

Yep. Up here in Sacramento, the commute for me to the closest autocross is 1 hour each way. Seems to be on par with the average commute time to events in the Bay Area.

San Diego Region is spoiled in this respect. Big lot, short travel distance. Enjoy it while you've got it.

Since it hasn't been said in a while, Soak City is a nice lot. You guys should be using it in the winter if the owners are still amenable to the idea.


I agree we should keep soak in the lineup, ya never know.

[Cullen]

Do you really want to have to drive over an hour to race on the weekend? Then an hour back... Think about how much more it'll cost US the racers in gas by having to drive that far back and forth.

Well, if one loves to race, the drive shouldn't stop them. I drive an hour regardless of where I compete. If you are worried about the extra cost of gas, (I can't care less about gas prices here :eek: as I would otherwise be spending about $6/gal if I were still in England. Americans are spoiled :mad: )
it would be better to spend the extra gas over having to raise millions for another venue.

I did not know there were TWO new tracks being built. Where are they? Those places should be our prime target and should be the easiest to achieve our goals at because the flippin' things are being built for that purpose anyway. If we can't achieve that, then we'll just have to go drive at the tracks they are building :(

:D

[Mazda_Gremlyn]

I can't speak for the group, but I'll bet you'll have the UCSDimports group and definitely the UCSD FSAE team behind the movement.

[81MakoJ]

Regardless of there being obstacles, I still think we should push for an initiative to get a venue built by the city. Sell the naming rights to it to a company like Samsung or Qualcomm and have the city run it with a sanctioning board to create safety guidelines and such.

We need to focus less on what's going to stop us and more on what we need to do to possibly get it approved. So please, lets agree to bring more constructive ideas on what we can do to make this a possibility.

Anyone got any approximations or estimates on the size of the west lot?

[Mazda_Gremlyn]

Well we know its about 1/8th of a mile long, probably 1/4th to 1/3rd of that wide. I'd say 700 ft long by 225 ft wide as a conservative and rectangular estimate.

[81MakoJ]

How many acres, would you say that is? I would think that it wouldn't be all that difficult for the state to set aside a few acres in a relatively remote area. If it's actually that small, I see no reason why we can't get it done.

Honestly, though, we really need to make it long enough to support a 1/4 mile drag strip. That'll get the NHRA's attention. ;)

[mcontour]

http://mcontour.9250x.com/WestLotSizeSmall.jpg

[Mazda_Gremlyn]

Haha, I was WAAAYYYYYY off! Well that comes in just under 350 acres.

[cshodges]

It's way more than an 1/8th mile. It's at least 3/8ths. Race Legal runs an 1/8th mile drag, and they have to have twice as much space to slow down as they do to speed up.

If you want a 1/4 mile strip, you'll need a 3/4 mile straight.

The west lot is about 35 acres, you're off by an order of magnitude.

[ASP 159]

Just so you’ll know what to ask for when you approach the city or whomever you are going to approach. To have anywhere near the playground we have enjoyed at Qualcomm you are going to need a million sq ft or just shy of 23 acres. After the EIR, plans, permits, grading and the ac it will cost $3,000,000 to turn it black. The fence around it can probably be had for $8.00 per ft. What will you do with the water that comes off of it in a 25 year rain? Makes no difference what God has done with it for the last 10 million years it is yours now. Better throw another 2 to $300,000 and a couple of acres at it for a bentonite or soilcement catch basin. You want facilities. Depending on the location this could double the cost of the project. Electricity? Around $22,000 per pole. You could use porta potties and a 100 kw generator for around $8000 at the auctions. Remember the generator has to be CARB certified. What about ingress, egress? Will they want landscaping? All of this assumes the land is donated.
If you are serious about NASCAR and the NHRA drive up to the 605 & 210 and take a look at what that will require on a regional level. Last but not least catch Randy Chase after he runs, and ask him what bases he has already covered.

[73STS]

[QUOTE=81MakoJ]Regardless of there being obstacles, I still think we should push for an initiative to get a venue built by the city.

I'm sure this is right at or near the top of the city council's to do list:

1. Build new stadium for Chargers.
2. Build motorsports complex.
...
34. Solve pension crisis.
35. Fund solution for pension crisis.

Contact Donna Frye - she's always good for a yes vote!

[81MakoJ]

Well the NASCAR thing wasn't originally my idea. A 2 mile circle track with an infield and stadium seating would be WAY too much to ask from the city. So I didn't truthfully expect that much.

I understand your concerns about it not being one of the city's top concerns but if we prove to the city that it could help reduce several other problems (pension crisis) it could very well get moved along.

A few things we haven't addressed, though. It doesn't have to be fully completed before it can start earning its worth. As soon as it's paved and accessible it can immediately be used on the weekends. 20 - 50 acres isn't really all that much land in rural Santee (the city wanted like 2300 acres for the airport), so perhaps we should approach the Santee city council first. Santee isn't having the budget crisis and I bet they would LOVE to have something that could bring in some serious funds, in the future.

My plan would be to first get the blacktop done and have porta-potties installed first. Let construction continue during the week and let weekend events start. The weekend events will immediately start bringing in profits to help aid its costs. Once the blacktop is completed, the facilities and concession can be built. At that point the blacktop area can be open to driving schools during the week and the weekend events will continue as usual. Once the facilities and concession are built the fence can be built and it'll basically be set. As the profits start pouring in the city can decide whether or not it wishes to upgrade it to a larger venue or leave it as is.

Now I just did some figures on the basic shape of it and I was thinking something sort of L or P shaped, if you know what I mean. The drag strip would be long enough for a 1/4 mile drag and then you'd have the big wide area next to it for coned courses, and the parking lot would be part of that same square, basically. I'm not the best designer, but I'm sure one of y'all can figure out the best way to plan the lay out of the venue.

So to wrap things up for this post, a couple of questions, does Santee have its own city council? We all know of San Diego's, but Santee is considered its own city so I would think that they have their own mayor and city government. However, the area that we'd consider "Santee" may actually be owned by San Diego, so we have to look in to that as well.

Continue discussion, though! mcontour, thanks a TON for finding that image! Twas EXTREMELY helpful in figuring out the amount of land we need. :D

[froggy47]

[QUOTE=81MakoJ]Regardless of there being obstacles, I still think we should push for an initiative to get a venue built by the city. Donna Frye - she's always good for a yes vote!


We could make her honarary event chair for the tart event.

:)

[81MakoJ]

Ya know that's probably actually not that bad of an idea. If we get some people from the council at least interested we'd have a much better chance. Anyone wanna make her the invitation? :p

[chapmanr]

We don't need a new facility right now, today. Good thing, because the fiscal climate in San Diego is not right for it. But, where does that leave our situation in the near term?

Let's just say the Chargers pick up and leave when they can. Not a bad bet.

The city engineers will not go down there the following day and blow up the Q, however. For one thing, demolishing a structure of that size takes money, which the city doesn't have. Redeveloping the site into something else will take time as well if the city decides to part with it and sell it to a developer. Development of any scale would take 3-5 years of negotiation, planning, permitting, EIRs, council meetings, public relations campaigns, etc.

There is the red ink factor of the stadium as it currently sits, which is certainly a hot button for the city. I would guess that a lot of the expense involved in running the place involves meeting the needs of the Chargers. When they leave, it may not make sense to continue the stadium's upkeep just for SDSU and the odd soccer match, religious service, and monster truck extravaganza.

However, it might make sense to padlock the stadium structure and continue renting out the lots while the question of the property's ultimate use is decided. When thinking of the amount of upkeep that would require, all I can come up with is security, trash, and juice for the lights.

So, absent some irrational act or unexpected development, our horizon for using the lots should extend out a few years.

Not to say we should sit on our hands, but getting serious about it now would probably lead to a lot of spinning, smoky burnouts and no forward progress.

So, I say, let's enjoy today and panic tomorrow:>

[7racer]

Imagine the headlines: "Donna given honorary chair @ TART gathering"

That won't help us...

[7racer]

Scot L thought he knew of a guy in CV that had a large vacant land plot suitable for our purposes. Suggested getting a proposal together. Don't know where that situation lies, but it seems a longshot to me.

I scrounged the internet a while back for how many "days" various clubs rented the stadium lots this year to try to get some idea about potential cash flow from such a venture. Between our SCCA events, Porsche, BMW, Corvette, Elise and the karters it may have been 60-90 days. When you use the $1500 per day that we pay the stadium the economics don't look very promising, in my view, UNFORTUNATELY. Those same numbers ain't near enough to save the stadium either.

Another five bucks from each entrant last sunday would have added about $1000 to the revenue. Concession and advertising would help, but.....

Please prove me wrong so that I can be more optomistic about things. Maybe we can get Henderson or the folks suing about the Mt. Soledad cross to muck up stadium removal with some lawsuits...

[7racer]

One last thought: Is it possible to get some support from Porsche & BMW dealers, tire dealers, and other businesses that we support. (Dealer participation could/should include many others; I just used those deutsche names because their owners have marque exclusive events.)

[cshodges]

Well the NASCAR thing wasn't originally my idea. A 2 mile circle track with an infield and stadium seating would be WAY too much to ask from the city. So I didn't truthfully expect that much.

I don't think you can expect the city to fund anything. A commercial venture is more likely. That's why I suggest something like NASCAR. You need something big-ticket in lieu of the Chargers to make the facility worthwhile financially to whomever is backing it.

[81MakoJ]

Scot L thought he knew of a guy in CV that had a large vacant land plot suitable for our purposes. Suggested getting a proposal together. Don't know where that situation lies, but it seems a longshot to me.

I scrounged the internet a while back for how many "days" various clubs rented the stadium lots this year to try to get some idea about potential cash flow from such a venture. Between our SCCA events, Porsche, BMW, Corvette, Elise and the karters it may have been 60-90 days. When you use the $1500 per day that we pay the stadium the economics don't look very promising, in my view, UNFORTUNATELY. Those same numbers ain't near enough to save the stadium either.

Another five bucks from each entrant last sunday would have added about $1000 to the revenue. Concession and advertising would help, but.....

Please prove me wrong so that I can be more optomistic about things. Maybe we can get Henderson or the folks suing about the Mt. Soledad cross to muck up stadium removal with some lawsuits...

Alright I'll help prove your calculations wrong. ;) Here's where I see other income from.

Naming rights could bring in $10,000 - $100,000 (how much does Qualcomm pay for the naming rights to the stadium?)
Car/RV shows (those are at least once a month for 2 - 3 days)
Driving schools (probably used during the week and weekends that are free)
Advertising/sponsors (aftermarket companies and tire companies would probably jump on the opportunity)

If you check out one of my prior posts you'll notice my idea for charging rental fees. A set base price of something like $1000 plus a percentage of profits, depending on the event. Say it's an RV show and rental is $1000 per day plus 1 - 5% of all profits earned. They sell a couple of RVs and make a $50,000 profit and now the venue just made an additional $500 - $2500. That type of rule would only be made for shows/sales. For motorsports events money would mainly be made off of the rental fee, concessions, and possibly admission. For autocross, perhaps charge admission for spectators for like $2 - $5 and make it so competitors can let in like 3 or 4 people each (your wife and kids basically). The admission and concession stand procedes would go directly to the venue, obviously, as well as the up front rental fee. An event that uses the drag strip would have to require a larger rental fee because there will obviously be a larger crowd and profit possibility.

I don't feel like doing the math but think of the 60 - 90 days used by autocross. Now consider the days used by racelegal. Now consider the days that NHRA clubs would start using. Now consider all of the other events and income sources that I just mentioned.

[81MakoJ]

I don't think you can expect the city to fund anything. A commercial venture is more likely. That's why I suggest something like NASCAR. You need something big-ticket in lieu of the Chargers to make the facility worthwhile financially to whomever is backing it.

Unfortunately the amount of land required for a NASCAR stadium would require more space than even a football stadium and the amount of noise from such a place would never be allowed even in this county. :(

We're going to have to start small with the possibility to later upgrade to a larger facility, in its place.

[dwkfym]

so anyone want to do a present value calculation? :p
((1-(1+i)^(-n) ) / i )*P = PV annuity

[frosty]

Imagine the headlines: "Donna given honorary chair @ TART gathering"

That won't help us...

LOL! :D

[froggy47]

Imagine the headlines: "Donna given honorary chair @ TART gathering"

That won't help us...


You calling her a tart or the attendees? Or maybe both.

:)

[froggy47]

I came across a couple of new (to me) bits of info re: venue.

The demolition of El Toro will start in about 12 months (this from a principal of the civil engineering firm that has part of the contract - so take it to the bank)

The used car sales in the north lot pay approx 40k a weekend for the rent of the space. I was shocked a bit at #2. It was in the UT and I did the math.

:)

[RandyC]

We all get a break from Qualcomm. One of the reasons everyone works so hard to protect the site. The loss of $1500 a day rental for Qualcomm Stadium is chump change. The minute it is too much hassle, risk/liability.. to much complaints from others.. then the stadium authority will stop renting to groups like us.

Those that pay more up front and have a secured weekend, pay a lot higher of a fee.

[81MakoJ]

The used car sales in the north lot pay approx 40k a weekend for the rent of the space.

Holy damn! Alright then 10 of those in a year brings in $400k! :eek: Alright now I see NO reason it couldn't be in the black in less than 5 years.

Excellent find!