WRX Alignment Suggestions

[frosty]

I'm thinking of getting an alignment soon. I haven't gotten one in the 27k of miles I've driven the car and I'd like to get a performance one on my car. For now I plan on staying in DS.

Does anyone know what the factory specs are or how much caster / negative camber a stock 2004 WRX sedan can do? I'm thinking of just going with 0 toe as it is easier on the tires unless there is a strong reason to do otherwise.

Thank you.

[freshspecbluegt]

If you are not already a member at NASIOC go check it out and spend some time searching through their motorsports forum. Lots of fast drivers giving good set up advice. Here's a link that will have what you need.

http://http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=426278&highlight=wrx+setup (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=426278&highlight=wrx+setup)

[frosty]

Thank you.

I am a member, but I was searching with something like "Tire Alignment WRX."

Edit:
Wow... almost too much information. This will take some time.

[frosty]

Ok so I read through it and now I have information overload.

I think I have an idea on what mods and tire alignment settings I should do at some point. After I see how my new tires do, I will get an alignment and go from there.

[freshspecbluegt]

Yeah like I said lots to be had over at NASIOC.

Don't worry about shocks or anything like that at this point, The alignment will make a huge difference by itself and help perserve your tires since it will help you stay off the outside edge of the tire a bit more.

Don't go crazy with the toe either since you are not dedicating a set of tires to AutoX yet I figure you want to keep your tires around for a while, toe tends to kill tires much faster than camber, the toe out they recommend will help with turn in but can cause accelerated tire wear but if kept rather modest it is not a concern. 0 toe in the rear while fast for autox can make the car a bit twitchy, so be aware; other wise get the alignment and that's all the "mods" you will need for your first season or so.

[frosty]

Yeah.. I wasn't planning on going with any toe since it would affect everything from tires to mpg.

So if I did as much negative camber and castor as stock allows, would that be a good start (maybe ask the alignment shop as well)?

Also, how twitchy would 0 rear toe make it?

[CivicTom]

Do you know what the car(not your driving) is doing wrong at the moment? Do you know what your alignment settings are at the moment?

If I were to take a stab at it though based on WRX's I've driven: Leave caster alone. Up to 2 degrees of negative front camber depending on what your tires like, maybe 1 degree or less rear camber with zero toe all round or maybe just a smidge of toe in in front to make it livable.

If not then just leave it alone or put it to stock. Until you really know what you want to do to your setu, leave it alone. The stock setup is safe and will save your tires which is best for you right now.

[frosty]

Do you know what the car(not your driving) is doing wrong at the moment? Do you know what your alignment settings are at the moment?

I don't know what my alignment is like now or what the factory spec is (27k of miles around lots of pot holes means those are different).

The suggested numbers you gave seem to be what a lot of people, including on the subaru forum, are recommending.

[Sebastian R.]

For a WRX in DS, get the biggest front anti-sway bar you can (I use the whiteline 27mm). This will help preserve what little negative camber you can get from the factory adjustments. You want as much negative camber as you can get in the front.
The camber curve on the WRX is so bad that even on my STX WRX with almost -4 static camber and a lot of caster I still go positive before full lock.
1/8 toe out in front is good. Don't go with a lot of camber in the rear.

[nalbar]

hey Seb!

i'm just curious Seb, i thought the 'rex suffered from understeer. wouldn't going with a larger front sway make your understeer worse? is your suggestion a trade off to lessen the understeer or is the understeer not as bad as i had heard?



nalbar

[frosty]

For a WRX in DS, get the biggest front anti-sway bar you can (I use the whiteline 27mm). This will help preserve what little negative camber you can get from the factory adjustments. You want as much negative camber as you can get in the front.
The camber curve on the WRX is so bad that even on my STX WRX with almost -4 static camber and a lot of caster I still go positive before full lock.
1/8 toe out in front is good. Don't go with a lot of camber in the rear.

I've read some stuff about toe in/ toe out, but I still don't get the benefits of toe out. Is it that the car will begin to turn more with less steering input, or does it contribute some to the stability of the car in a turn like negative camber?

[frosty]

hey Seb!

i'm just curious Seb, i thought the 'rex suffered from understeer. wouldn't going with a larger front sway make your understeer worse? is your suggestion a trade off to lessen the understeer or is the understeer not as bad as i had heard?



nalbar

From all that I've read, it's this weird thing with the strut design used by the car. As the car rolls it gets positive camber and looses it's grip. To prevent the positive camber, it needs the sway bar to keep it flat and gripping.

There is a lengthy discussion in the link in the second post by freshspecbluegt. One guy was doing worse than another. Since pictures showed the second guy's car looking flat and cool in corners, he wanted to put a sway bar on his to look cool in pictures too. Immediately he found that his WRX understeered less.

[dan240]

I agree with you that a front sway bar will help keep the car flat but if you want to get the car to rotate the best thing you can do is get the biggest rear sway bar you can find.

Seb, I have Noltec plates (camber/caster) and the factory camber bolts. The most camber my shop could get out of the car was 2.5 degress. Can I ask what your doing to get 4 out of it?

Thanks,
Dan
04 WRX

[frosty]

The problem with putting on a rear sway bar is that I want to stay in stock.

Why is it that, on normal cars, putting a sway bar on the front will induce understeer and putting one on the rear will induce oversteer? It almost sounds like a tuning thing to balance out the over/understeer by making the front or rear grip less in a turn.

[woodrufj]

The problem with putting on a rear sway bar is that I want to stay in stock.

Why is it that, on normal cars, putting a sway bar on the front will induce understeer and putting one on the rear will induce oversteer? It almost sounds like a tuning thing to balance out the over/understeer by making the front or rear grip less in a turn.
Today's cars are from the factory with understeer to protect dumb people. Typically an aftermarket rear sway bar only will help the handeling quite a bit. Typically an aftermarket front bar will induce more understeer, but can keep the car flat and reduce the risk of roll over.

So in SCCA's world, only rear bars help handeling (so not stock legal) and front bars are mostly a safety thing for body rolling cars.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[Sebastian R.]

I agree with you that a front sway bar will help keep the car flat but if you want to get the car to rotate the best thing you can do is get the biggest rear sway bar you can find.

Seb, I have Noltec plates (camber/caster) and the factory camber bolts. The most camber my shop could get out of the car was 2.5 degress. Can I ask what your doing to get 4 out of it?

Thanks,
Dan
04 WRX
I have JIC struts with camber plates that have been modified to mount diagonally, the open areas where the nuts slide have been lengthened by a good amount too.

As far as a front sway bar increasing understeer, frosty hit it on the head. A big front bar will keep the front flatter and help preserve what little static camber you can achieve using factory adjustment methods.

Bottom line though the WRX just doesn't corner well, it is by no means a momentum car it's more like go fast, slow way down (too slow is OK too fast is not), turn early and get out of the corner as quickly as possible.

[frosty]

As far as a front sway bar increasing understeer, frosty hit it on the head. A big front bar will keep the front flatter and help preserve what little static camber you can achieve using factory adjustment methods.


Thank you. The whole idea of "reducing understeer with a big front swaybar" seems to be very backwards for many experienced tuners.



Bottom line though the WRX just doesn't corner well, it is by no means a momentum car it's more like go fast, slow way down (too slow is OK too fast is not), turn early and get out of the corner as quickly as possible.

There was a turn I took at the Novice school that I took on the fast side. I lifted and induced a small drift but coming out of it I was dead slow (being off the gas / lagged through the drift took all my speed). It seems that good late apexing is the only way for this car to compete in DS (between lagged power and poor cornering).

[froggy47]

There was a turn I took at the Novice school that I took on the fast side. I lifted and induced a small drift but coming out of it I was dead slow (being off the gas / lagged through the drift took all my speed). It seems that good late apexing is the only way for this car to compete in DS (between lagged power and poor cornering).

This is a "lightbulb moment" for many people. Remember it well. And it's not for just your car in DS, ask me how I know:) .

[frosty]

This is a "lightbulb moment" for many people. Remember it well. And it's not for just your car in DS, ask me how I know:) .

There are only two cases where a drift-like maneuver has shown me any promise of being useful (more experienced drivers might/will differ).
1) In a sweeping turn (not decreasing like the first at the Novice school)
2) After hard braking or already slow and able to mash on the gas very early coming out of the turn