H stock suspension

[Cullen]

Can anyone tell me which is the best set of shocks to get for my 93' civic.
Since i've put on new Azenis, and the suspension is completely stock, my car now has rather violent body roll. I know that a fast car is a well balanced one, so i've decided that it is time for shocks to complement the tires.
I've seen Koni's, KYB's and Tokico's online, and was wondering who has experience with any of these brands. Thanks in advance

[rodger]

All three companies sell a variety of shocks and struts, autocross cars often use the adjustable variety. Koni's are considered among the best off-the-shelf shocks, especially the adjustable Sports (aka Yellows.) I have KYB AGX's on my car that are four or eight position adjustable by a little clicky-knob. They're okay shocks, better than stock certainly. The adjustment range is not as great as the Koni's (meaning the car's handling is less tunable) but it is easy to switch between my autocross and street shock settings.

Anyway, any new strut is probably better than what you have and you don't need to spend a lot if you are just starting autocross. How much faster are Koni's than KYB's? I doubt it's a half second. Are you that close to winning your class?

Also, you can replace the front sway bar in HS. If body roll is excessive, that's where I'd start.

[woodrufj]

Its going to be tough finding an experienced opinion, I don't know of any HS '93ish in the area. (except maybe Scott A's, 'chim-chim'). You might want to elevate the question to the SCCAforums to get a national audience.

The shocks and front bar will by far be your best upgrades, but small tricks can be made too. If your car is high mileage, like you'd expect a 13year old honda to be, your springs might be saggy wet noodles. If the dealer still sells OEM replacements, you might want to look into that. There could be a significant difference between OEM old and OEM new.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[chapmanr]

I ran an H Stock Civic for a while with some moderate success. Here's my cheap advise:

If you going to have the car for a while, Konis are a worthwhile investment. They are the best off the shelf, and have a lifetime warranty. Their rebound and compression settings work well together, so they are very smooth in weight transfer. If you want to get it done for cheap, Tokico blues work very well but aren't adjustable.

Frankly, in an H stock car you are going to have a lot of body roll no matter what you do. Some free to cheap things you can do to improve its stick:

Loosen the front sway bar. Civics have too much bar in the front, and as a result they will will pick up the unloaded front tire. This gives a whole new dimension to understeer. You can go farther in this direction by removing it entirely, or try a lighter sway bar if you'd rather not unhook things.

Give the car 'bout a 1/4 inch toe out in the front, to help its turn in.

Try experimenting with a little toe out in the rear. This will help the car rotate with a dropped throttle. You might want to make this adjustment at the event site and undo it before you go home, as it can make the car very eager to turn. Don't ever drop the throttle in a sweeper with this toe setting.

Get a set of brand spanking new OEM rear springs. They should have a higher spring rate than the old ones on the car.

[Mike]

I would recommned starting with the adjustable KONI's (yellow) This will greatly improve your handeling right away. They can be adjusted to most any setting. It will take you a few events (months) to figure out wht you like best, but you will definitly see the quikist results with the shocks.

Next would be the springs. As the civic is a rather heavy car (for it's size) the springs tend to go soft. My Insight is so light this is not an issue.

Next would be a lighter sway bar. Ron is right that the Civic tends to have a pretty stiff stock sway bar.

Next would be to mess with the alingment. There are a couple of shops that really know what to do, or you can learn to do it yourself.

Just my two cents.

[Cullen]

Thanks everyone for their help. I never thought that new springs would make a big difference :) Now I know that the Konis are going to be the best choice for me because i will probably be in HS for a while. That is also interesting about my sway bar...
Well, i won't have any of these things done by next event, so look out for a civic running the course in controlled chaos.....:eek:
Thanks again everybody 15 days and counting :D

[woodrufj]

I don't remember what tires your on, but if your serious about HS, keep R-comps in mind for the future.

You'll need seperate street/race rims. There's a few ways to do this; buy a cheep (sometimes free) spare OEM set used and keep R-comps on them, buy a nice looking set of aftermarket rims with no regard to width/diameter to use as 'street' wheels then put R-comps on your OEMs, or go out of your way to find the lightest fanciest rims that meet OEM dimentions and race on those. The first is the cheapest, the middle usually makes the most sence, the last is the most competitive. Just something to keep in mind for the future.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[Cullen]

Right now i have just the stock OEM 14 steel wheels, with Azenis on them now. I plan on doing some track events in the future too, so I was told that an STS setup is more practical for doing both. That is when i will proabably upgrade to nice racing wheels that are a couple inches bigger. I am told that the Azenis are almost as good as an R-compound, and with the lifetime that they are supposed to have, approx. 12,000 miles?, I think i will run those all the time. thanks jason

[frosty]

For one of the guys I use as a measuring stick, the difference between R-comps and Azenis are about 2-3 seconds. For the purpose of having fun, they are almost as good. For being competitive in a stock class, it won't quite cut it.

[chapmanr]

I have a little direct H stock experience here too...

Some R compound tires just don't work well on narrow rims. The Kumho V700s come to mind. My Civic was faster on Azenis than on V700s. I would guess that the margin of ST-615 to 710's would be 1-1.5 seconds when the 710s are new and the Falkens are still prime (when they still have 1/4-1/2 tread). It will fall off once the 710s go over 50-60 runs. Your results may vary, of course.

In most local low displacement stock classes, I think you can be in contention on Falkens. Say D-G-H stock.

[Cullen]

I see. That is good news for me then. :)
Is it because the R-compunds have more grip and the simple suspension mods on stock class cars means they distort more in cornering? Just a wild guess..
I am still learning the limits of these tires, which is kind of hard on bumpy corners. Although this mornings freeway on-ramp was fun!
Hopefully the next course is a fast and flowing one, so I won't have to deal (as much) with the problem of my weight transfer....
Thanks Ron

[chapmanr]

I'm not sure why the R tires lose some advantage on narrow rims...your theory is probably as good as any. I have thought that the lack of negative camber you typically find in older (pre Mini) H stockers may be a factor. Sidewalls are so much lower and stiffer than they were, so there should be less sidewall deflection and the tire is therefore less able to keep the contact patch squarely on the ground. Back in the early 90's, a 60 series tire was still considered low profile, and these probably worked better on 5.5 or 6 inch rims.

[Mike]

I have run the same set of Kuhmo 710's for last season and this season. They have worn very well. I think they are getting slower and slower each event.

I run them on a set 14 X 5.5 Honda OEM wheels that weight about 8.5 lbs. Very, very light. They are from a Civic HX. I may be interested in selling them after the first part of next year. I will keep you posted. They would come with some pretty well worn Kuhmo 710's.

[Cullen]

UUUhhhhhh. I just found out that i cannot make the 10th. I have to attend my grandpa's 75th birthday. He is getting old....Oh, well. Thanks for all the info again guys. Anyone going to Cal Club the weekend after? I'll be there and I'll test my car out then. Enjoy the 10th....