Bought a new car: '06 S2000

[2QYK4U]

I bought a 2006 S2000 about 2 weeks ago. Love it! I have put about 700 miles on her thus far. Still breaking her in--haven't taken her above 6K RPMs yet.

I autocrossed my '04 Civic 4-5 times in 2005, so I have a little (I stress LITTLE) experience autocrossing. I hope to participate in every event in 2006 in my new S. As I see it, the two biggest challenges will be:

1. Learning how to autocross a RWD car
2. Learning how to autocross the S2000, which even in stock form, excels in autocrossing

Any suggestions?

[Andrew]

1. Learning how to autocross a RWD car
2. Learning how to autocross the S2000, which even in stock form, excels in autocrossing

Any suggestions?

The S2000 -- especially the 2004+ -- is actually a fairly forgiving car to autox. At least on street tires. Compared to my old MR2, anyway. The down side is, most San Diego courses are driven at speeds that exist just between second and third gear, so you're always wondering if it's better to shift or not.

Some suggestions, in no particular order of relevance:

* FWD solutions to oversteer don't generally work on RWD cars. That is, "If the car is loose, mash the gas" is the wrong solution.

* Corollary: "If the car is loose, get off the gas" is also the wrong solution. It's left as an exercise for the reader to figure out the correct solution.

* A bone-stock S2000 on the OEM Bridgestone RE050 likes the factory pressure settings when autocrossing -- 32 psi front and rear. You will experience a lot of shoulder wear on the fronts without an alignment, though.

* Check out the racing/autocross forum at s2ki.com for good setup recommendations. Figure out which posters know what they're talking about before taking their advice, though (should be pretty obvious after a few days of reading). Feel free to ignore all the other forums. I generally ignore the site completely these days.

* Don't let go of the steering wheel. The S2000 hates it when you do that.

* If you've got the break-in miles complete on time, attend the novice school this month for some serious seat time.

Just so you know where this all came from, I drive the yellow '04 S2000. It's bone stock. Not even an alignment, as the front tire shoulders will attest to.

[Andrew]

Oh yeah, one more thing. Since it's an '06, don't forget to turn OFF the traction control when autocrossing.

[frosty]

* FWD solutions to oversteer don't generally work on RWD cars. That is, "If the car is loose, mash the gas" is the wrong solution.

* Corollary: "If the car is loose, get off the gas" is also the wrong solution. It's left as an exercise for the reader to figure out the correct solution.


I learned to drive on RWD cars, and I've found that controlled usage of the gas will help bring the rear through a turn (too much will cause the rear to exit the turn before the front: file under letting go of the steering wheel).

One thing you will eventually grow to like about RWD is that the wheels that steer are not the wheels that power.

(Warning: these comments are about RWD driving in general)

[cshodges]

One thing you will eventually grow to like about RWD is that the wheels that steer are not the wheels that power.

Generally. Except for those times when you're steering with the throttle. :D

[2QYK4U]

Thanks for all your comments thus far. My plan is to stay in AS for as long as possible, so that I can learn how to drive the car itself while improving my driving skills (my driving skills are nowhere near up to par with the car). However, I've already got the "mod bug". Here are my mod plans:

1. Comptech titanium front upper strut bar - already in my possession but won't be installed until around summer of '06.
2. Comptech adjustable sway bar - will order around summer of '06
3. Koni yellows / Eisler springs (or a full coilover setup) - will order around summer of '06
4. Comptech supercharger or Full-Race Stage 1 turbo kit - will order around summer of '06
5. Brake upgrade - TBD
6. Cusco roll cage

That is just a few of the mods I am planning over the course of the next year or so.

[frosty]

So would that put you in SM2?

[2QYK4U]

So would that put you in SM2?
My understanding is that I can replace the following and still be in AS:

1. Front sway bar
2. Shocks
3. Tires (with the exception of R-compound)
4. Brake pads
5. Roll cage

Installing the following would put me in SP:

1. Front upper strut bar
2. Lowering springs
3. Slotted/drilled rotors and steelbraided brake lines

Installing the following would put me in SM:

Comptech S/C

Unfortunately (depending on how you look at it), I will probably be in SM within a year. I am not overly concerned with that though--I ran my Civic in SM.

[frosty]

If I had the pockets to do SM or even just STX, I'd probably do it. I don't so I (probably) won't.

[2QYK4U]

If I had the pockets to do SM or even just STX, I'd probably do it. I don't so I (probably) won't.
Pockets meaning money?

[cshodges]

R-compound tires are legal in stock classes. They are not allowed in STS/STX.

[2QYK4U]

I have about 750 miles on my S now. Haven't taken her past 6K RPMs (redline is 8K). I'd like to participate in the event on the 18th, but I am not sure she'll be ready???

[Andrew]

I have about 750 miles on my S now. Haven't taken her past 6K RPMs (redline is 8K). I'd like to participate in the event on the 18th, but I am not sure she'll be ready???

250 miles to the magical 1000 mile "no longer have to be nice to the engine" odo mark in 13 days is only 20 miles per day. I think you'll be fine.

Or you can adopt the "break it in hard" school of thought, and you're still fine.

Either way, the novice school beckons.

Now all you have to do is ask Michael Contour if there are spots still available.

[2QYK4U]

250 miles to the magical 1000 mile "no longer have to be nice to the engine" odo mark in 13 days is only 20 miles per day. I think you'll be fine.

Or you can adopt the "break it in hard" school of thought, and you're still fine.

Either way, the novice school beckons.

Now all you have to do is ask Michael Contour if there are spots still available.
I should be at about 1000 miles by the 18th...I have been finded ways of getting some extra driving in. ;)

I am having my S dyno'd on the 16th...which means they will be taking the car to redline (for only a split second though, and only for 2-3 pulls).

[Mazda_Gremlyn]

I wish I had the pockets for STX too, currently I just flounder near the bottom of the times for the group :D Congrats on the car and hope you enjoy many races in it!

[2QYK4U]

I wish I had the pockets for STX too, currently I just flounder near the bottom of the times for the group :D Congrats on the car and hope you enjoy many races in it!
Thanks! I can't wait to improve my driving skills and finding out what the car's potential is.

[Bimota Guy]

3. Tires (with the exception of R-compound)
5. Roll cage

3. I assume by "R' you mean non-DOT. If so, correct.

5. Be sure to read the specific rules. I believe that a roll cage has a minimum number of attachment points (6?) and has to be bolted in (not welded) for Stock classes. A rollbar (max of 4 points?) can be welded or bolted in for Stock classes. But, again, read the rules.

[froggy47]

Thanks for all your comments thus far. My plan is to stay in AS for as long as possible, so that I can learn how to drive the car itself while improving my driving skills (my driving skills are nowhere near up to par with the car). However, I've already got the "mod bug". Here are my mod plans:

1. Comptech titanium front upper strut bar - already in my possession but won't be installed until around summer of '06.
2. Comptech adjustable sway bar - will order around summer of '06
3. Koni yellows / Eisler springs (or a full coilover setup) - will order around summer of '06
4. Comptech supercharger or Full-Race Stage 1 turbo kit - will order around summer of '06
5. Brake upgrade - TBD
6. Cusco roll cage

That is just a few of the mods I am planning over the course of the next year or so.

Leave it stock & play with the 10 to 20 year old plastic Chevy's in AS

:D

[frosty]

Pockets meaning money?

Yes... meaning money.:rolleyes:

Software Engineers with minimal experience just don't make what they did 8 years ago.

[Roostie]

I think you oughta consider a roll BAR instead of a roll cage. A roll cage pretty much relegates the vehicle to race-car only, in really gets in the way of the ingress/egress and is for serious high-speed track work. A roll bar is all behind the front seats and doesn't interfere with your enjoyment of the car, and doesn't screw up the looks of it nearly as much. In fact, they look downright sporty on a convertible.

That said, in my early 20's, my daily driver had a roll cage in it... a turbocharged econo car with 20 pounds of boost seemed to need some extra reinforcement. But I can't say I recommend it, particularly in a newer much safer car like the S2000.

I recommend you get an extra set of wheels with some r-compounds and run in stock class. The r-compound modification is the most extreme one you can make in autocross! And get a nice aluminum jack, some jack stands, a breaker bar, cordless drill and a deep socket in the size of your lug nuts, and do your wheel changes at home before & after autocross. Make sure the wheels you get are within 1/4" of the stock offset, and are the very same diameter and width. Safest thing to do is get some take-offs from another S2000 on eBay, or peruse what's available in same size & offset at Tirerack.com; pay attention to wheel weight if you go aftermarket... lighter is better.

My advice is against most of the mods you dream of, especially the supercharger and coilovers and roll cage. Fund your Roth IRA, send money for Hurricane Relief, go on safari, go to Skip Barber racing school, any of those things would be a better use of your $$$. I should know ... I've modded a few cars!

[2QYK4U]

I think you oughta consider a roll BAR instead of a roll cage. A roll cage pretty much relegates the vehicle to race-car only, in really gets in the way of the ingress/egress and is for serious high-speed track work. A roll bar is all behind the front seats and doesn't interfere with your enjoyment of the car, and doesn't screw up the looks of it nearly as much. In fact, they look downright sporty on a convertible.

I recommend you get an extra set of wheels with some r-compounds and run in stock class. The r-compound modification is the most extreme one you can make in autocross! And get a nice aluminum jack, some jack stands, a breaker bar, cordless drill and a deep socket in the size of your lug nuts, and do your wheel changes at home before & after autocross. Make sure the wheels you get are within 1/4" of the stock offset, and are the very same diameter and width.
I understand and agree with most of your feedback. Here are my responses:

Roll bar/cage:

I really like the look of the Cusco 6 point roll cage. Here is a picture:

http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/catalog-detail.php?ID=1223

I don't foresee this roll cage interfering with too much of anything--maybe a few buttons will be harder to reach??? I am more interested in making the chassis even more rigid and increasing the overall safety.

Wheels/tires:

I really need to think this through. I could use the stock wheels for autocrossing. The only potential problem is being limited as to the width of tire of could run because of the stock wheels. I want to get some R-compound tires, but I am not sure that I am "ready" for them. I don't want them to be a "band-aid" for some bad driving habits I may have.

[cshodges]

R-comp tires do hide bad habits, so it may be a good idea to stick to street tires at first. That's a good reason.

However, the limited tire width isn't as much of a problem. Everybody in your class will have the same width limit, and a narrow R-comp tire can take on any street tire where the rim is only a 1/2" wider with ease. Plus, autocrossers have been known to stretch the limits of what fits on the stock rims.

[freshspecbluegt]

I understand and agree with most of your feedback. Here are my responses:

Roll bar/cage:

I really like the look of the Cusco 6 point roll cage. Here is a picture:

http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/catalog-detail.php?ID=1223

I don't foresee this roll cage interfering with too much of anything--maybe a few buttons will be harder to reach??? I am more interested in making the chassis even more rigid and increasing the overall safety.

Wheels/tires:

I really need to think this through. I could use the stock wheels for autocrossing. The only potential problem is being limited as to the width of tire of could run because of the stock wheels. I want to get some R-compound tires, but I am not sure that I am "ready" for them. I don't want them to be a "band-aid" for some bad driving habits I may have.


Not to come of sounding rude but the cusco cage is nothing but a ricer bling item. It looks like nothing is triangulated and there are all kinds of bends that don't belong in there. Start reading the the race and competition seciton on s2ki.com. This cage is generally referred to as the cruschco cage because it is not going to protect you at all in a rollover. Infact if you are running this or any cage on the street without a proper seat, harness and helmet chances are you are just going to ending up smacking your head on the cage in a accident. Look how the crushco has all kinds of bolts and **** right next to your head. This cage is not approved by any racing body SCCA included, I would not go any where near it. If you are driving on the street a cage acutally exposes you to unnecessary risks. If you want more rollover protection look in to the Elda bar, but if you are not tracking the car regularly, the genereal consensus is, that cages and bars can lead to more injuries than they will prevent.

Ross

[JamesWilson]

I understand and agree with most of your feedback. Here are my responses:

Roll bar/cage:

I really like the look of the Cusco 6 point roll cage. Here is a picture:

http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/catalog-detail.php?ID=1223

I don't foresee this roll cage interfering with too much of anything--maybe a few buttons will be harder to reach??? I am more interested in making the chassis even more rigid and increasing the overall safety.

Wheels/tires:

I really need to think this through. I could use the stock wheels for autocrossing. The only potential problem is being limited as to the width of tire of could run because of the stock wheels. I want to get some R-compound tires, but I am not sure that I am "ready" for them. I don't want them to be a "band-aid" for some bad driving habits I may have.


Hmmm....I kind of don't like the way the top bars have that bolt-and-tab setup, not sure if other sanctioning bodies would pass that in tech or not. FWIW, the Autopower versions use slip tubes and bolts to help eliminate sharp and bendy things near the old noggin'.

[LarryC]

Hmmm....I kind of don't like the way the top bars have that bolt-and-tab setup, not sure if other sanctioning bodies would pass that in tech or not. FWIW, the Autopower versions use slip tubes and bolts to help eliminate sharp and bendy things near the old noggin'.

There is also a safety concern in regards to unpadded roll bar subject to contact by driver's and passenger's unprotected head during an accident for street driven cars.

Most sanctioning bodies will require padding. Here is an example from the Appendix C - Solo II Roll Bar Standards.

"ROLL BAR PADDING
Braces and portions of he main hoop subject to contact by the driver's or passenger's helmet, as seated normally and restrained by seatbelt and harness, must be padded with a non-resilient material such as Ethafoam (R) or Ensolite (R) or other similar material with a minimum thickness of one-half inch."

LarryC

[2QYK4U]

Thanks for all your comments regarding the Cusco roll cage. I read up on it and will definitely NOT be getting it.

[froggy47]

Hey, give this guy some credit, he's got a new 06 & he's ready to hack it up. Not like some guys I have seen with 6 rolls of tape all over their new car.

:D

[Roostie]

Hmmm....I kind of don't like the way the top bars have that bolt-and-tab setup, not sure if other sanctioning bodies would pass that in tech or not. FWIW, the Autopower versions use slip tubes and bolts to help eliminate sharp and bendy things near the old noggin'.

Seconded! The cage-equipped car I used to have had an Autopower bar with lots of padding, and I used five-point belts to use all the time. Glad to hear you won't get the Cusco piece.

Consider the problems with the Cusco cage emblematic with modifications in general! I suggest racking up some experience playing with a stock-class car before venturing into modifications. With a stock car, there's very little you have to do and you can concentrate on your driving rather than sorting out the mods. Even if you don't want to get really into autocross, put your mod money into something else, like a 3-day driving school at a racetrack which would probably be the funnest three days you ever had, or spend the money on a bunch of track day events where you get to run lap after lap at tracks like Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Willow Springs.

Get the Need for Speed, not the Thing for Bling! :D