Rules question

[froggy47]

On my 2nd run (clean) I pointed out a down cone past the finish near where the time slip lady was sitting. She set the cone and of course it was not called on me. I don't know if it was called on anyone actually.

I kept the time as it was good (at the time). It turns out to have not been that good by the end of all runs of my class.

Did I have the option of a rerun on a down cone after the finish? The strategy would be, I suppose, that even if you have a good time, you should be able to improve on it.

Thanks for any feedback, not looking for "opinions", I'd like to know specifically if a rerun is allowed "according to the rules".

I believe a similar situation happened a few events back at a cscc event & rerun was allowed subject to the "good time" getting tossed of course. I am not POSITIVE about that cscc as I just overheard T&S talking about it.

[serautoxer]

MMM, Interesting Question.

However, the answer would most generally be NO in that situation. If the cone was right after the light and you would have to avoid it, Maybe.

However, Stopping for a downed cone Technically only counts if you stop and point out Where the Downed cone was. In that case, a car probably picked it up, it was probably replaced with a Spare at the station, and came out of the car at that point.

On the other side, if you were to stop for a cone that is moved and still Touching it's box, you would also NOT recieve a rerun.

However, in another case, if a Cone is missing and you see that the Corner worker is running to replace it (THEY KNOW It was already hit) you CAN Technically shortcut the course and use the missing cone to your advantage. However, if one of your competitors knew about this, they could protest the Course workers, however, they would most likely loose the protest.

[JamesWilson]

There was another situation that occured when the STX Mazda 6 in the 5th run group had stopped and clearly pointed to a downed cone in Station 1, but proceeded to do a 10/10ths rest of his lap (I was up the hill in Station 2, working radio)....he still got a re-run.

Should he have been granted his re-run, even though he did not proceed at a slower pace or leave the track (don't have the supplemental regs in front of me)? Discuss..........

Another car in the same run group had DNF'd in Station 1, but was red-flagged for bumbling workers in Station 4 later in that same lap, announcing a Re-Run. Tradition states that he does NOT get a re-run because he had already taken his DNF for that lap. Discuss.........

Workers-- only shag the cones that you can safely reach, and only red-flag if workers or cars are in peril. Drivers know they can stop for downed cones, and its much easier and safer to maneuver around little plastic orange things than flailing workers scrambling in the path of a car in 3rd gear.........unless you're Ken M. in LA, then you can always hide behind a light pole when the car is coming at you :-) Leave the cones there, let the drivers stop if they see them, THEN reset the course only if its safe.


That way EVERYONE is familiar with on-course proceedure, especially if they have not read the Supplemental Regs or read the SCCA Solo2 Rules regarding such.

-JamesW

[Mazda_Gremlyn]

There was another situation that occured when the STX Mazda 6 in the 5th run group had stopped and clearly pointed to a downed cone in Station 1, but proceeded to do a 10/10ths rest of his lap (I was up the hill in Station 2, working radio)....he still got a re-run.

Should he have been granted his re-run, even though he did not proceed at a slower pace or leave the track (don't have the supplemental regs in front of me)? Discuss..........


I did indeed slow down after I stopped for the course worker not the cone (well both I suppose). He was setting the cone as I was coming up to the corner and I prefered not to hit the guy. My time on that run ended being up 90.xxx, where as I was running 79/80 on the other 3 good runs I had. Even with stopping, which I did just long enough to ensure the worker was clear, 10-11 seconds puts me running quite a bit slower than I was previously. I felt I was driving just fast enough so that I wouldn't be a problem for the car behind me.

[froggy47]

MMM, Interesting Question.

However, the answer would most generally be NO in that situation. If the cone was right after the light and you would have to avoid it, Maybe.

However, Stopping for a downed cone Technically only counts if you stop and point out Where the Downed cone was. In that case, a car probably picked it up, it was probably replaced with a Spare at the station, and came out of the car at that point.




Limiting the answer to my facts as posted (obviously there are lots of other possibilities) the answer on the scca forum was that it did actually happen as I described at nationals this year during BS and YES, the driver IS entitled to a rerun.

[froggy47]

There was another situation that occured when the STX Mazda 6 in the 5th run group had stopped and clearly pointed to a downed cone in Station 1, but proceeded to do a 10/10ths rest of his lap (I was up the hill in Station 2, working radio)....he still got a re-run.

Should he have been granted his re-run, even though he did not proceed at a slower pace or leave the track (don't have the supplemental regs in front of me)? Discuss..........

-JamesW

I'll put my 2 cent's in on this different question. Over the past couple of years I've pointed out cone a few times & proceeded at 8/10's.

Often, if the course worker does not get the "point out" right away you sit there for a while till you know somebody has seen the point. Then you take off and often the course workers down course are giving you the sign to "speed up"

If you proceed too slow you get the speed up sign also.

If you go too fast (whatever that is) somebody complains.

So I guess my point on this is you are screwed no matter what you do, somebody is going to think you're going too slow, and somebody else thinks you are too fast (and getting unfair practice at speed).

So I just go fast/safe 8/10 to 9/10 and don't worry about it.

[MX5bob]

Another car in the same run group had DNF'd in Station 1, but was red-flagged for bumbling workers in Station 4 later in that same lap, announcing a Re-Run. Tradition states that he does NOT get a re-run because he had already taken his DNF for that lap. Discuss.........

No rerun because the DNF occurred before the red flag.

[froggy47]

No rerun because the DNF occurred before the red flag.

I agree, but it would be up to T&S to make this determination as the course worker that does the red flag (and the radio that calls in the rerun) would not necessarily know about the prior dnf. Course radios might have heard it or not since our radios are not all that great.

Sidebar: When we get the new trailer will that help with communications (new antenna or something) or are the radio problems a separate issue?

[nalbar]

So I just go fast/safe 8/10 to 9/10 and don't worry about it.


except some people in the trailer take away your rerun if you hit a cone. and this happened TWICE not to long ago.

your screwed either way. but your safest route is to GO SLOW and NOT hit cones. if the car behind you gets red flagged because he is gaining to bad, its not your fault, its the downed cones fault.

in other words, for you the driver there is no upside for going fast, only the chance of losing your rerun.


nalbar

[nalbar]

i also have a rules question;

if a car goes off course and re-enters BEHIND where he went out, is that a DNF?

i had always been told that you had to re-enter EXACTLY where you went out, but at the TART event i was told by the trailer that BEHIND where you go out is not a DNF.


nalbar

[RandyC]

i also have a rules question;

if a car goes off course and re-enters BEHIND where he went out, is that a DNF?

i had always been told that you had to re-enter EXACTLY where you went out, but at the TART event i was told by the trailer that BEHIND where you go out is not a DNF.


nalbar

You have to enter AFTER the point you left to be disqualified.

[MX5bob]

The national rules say:



7.4 RERUNS
Reruns will be granted only for timing failure or object on the course,
and will not be given because of mechanical or other failure of the
competitor’s car. A minimum of five minutes must have elapsed,
before a competitor may take a rerun.

Pylon penalties are not carried over to the rerun. A DNF on a run for
which a rerun would have been given shall stand and no reruns shall
be given.

It also says you're supposed to pull off course, but that's not every region's practice.

And, CSHodges, I was wrong. The above rule doesn't fall under the National / Tour / Divisional heading. :o :o

[Mazda_Gremlyn]

Warren, I was always under the impression you have to re-enter at OR before the point at which you went off. It makes sense logically, why would you get a DNF for giving yourself a time penalty (i.e. rerunning a brief section of the course).

[woodrufj]

if a car goes off course and re-enters BEHIND where he went out, is that a DNF?I haven't seen the rule, but at national events this is not a DNF. I've seen it often.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[froggy47]

except some people in the trailer take away your rerun if you hit a cone. and this happened TWICE not to long ago.

your screwed either way. but your safest route is to GO SLOW and NOT hit cones. if the car behind you gets red flagged because he is gaining to bad, its not your fault, its the downed cones fault.

in other words, for you the driver there is no upside for going fast, only the chance of losing your rerun.


nalbar


This is a good point, I had not thought of that.

[serautoxer]

Basically the general concensus is that if you are red flagged, stop for a down cone, whatever, then proceed through the course at a speed at which you do not have control and hit a cone, you went to FAST.

If you go slow, and someone is catching you and the workers wave at you to make you speed up, then it is AcKNOWLEDGED that you slowed down and that the event Managemant is signally you to go faster, so go faster, just not 10/10ths, and there will be no problem.

[JamesWilson]

Forgive me, Mazda6 guy, for assuming you went 10/10ths-- while working my section and noting the speed of each of the drivers, your speed and appearance did not change from your "slow run" to your competition runs....

That means you can go faster!! hehe