Cam In Sm2

[DelSolBurrow]

Are internal mods such as a cam legal to do on my SOHC del sol in Sm2? i already tried looking at the rule book, but couldn't figure it out.

[woodrufj]

Yes.

Essentially engine mods are free in SM2 with the limitation of requiring a same manufacturer block (for you, any Honda/Acura block, including JDM).

I'd highly recommend you don't do it. Your DelSol looks to be maturing well in DSP. If you jump to SM2, its game over against the vettes.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[DelSolBurrow]

it already illegal in DSP carbon fiber hoods arn't legal and i already have a lighten flywheel on the way.

the 23rd event in SM2 i seemed to do fine. Although my times on paper don't show it cause i was having issues during the 4 runs that counted, but after i got things figured out i would have placed 2nd right behind the vette by about 2 seconds. Considering i only have a SOHC honda and not DOHC... i m happy with that out come.

[Chas]

You need to ask your self if you are ready to move up in class.

I mean, can you REALLY handle the extra 10hp of del sol fury.

[froggy47]

it already illegal in DSP carbon fiber hoods arn't legal and i already have a lighten flywheel on the way.

the 23rd event in SM2 i seemed to do fine. Although my times on paper don't show it cause i was having issues during the 4 runs that counted, but after i got things figured out i would have placed 2nd right behind the vette by about 2 seconds


2 seconds = a lifetime in autox

:)

But do what's fun for you, that's the MAIN thing.

[woodrufj]

Flywheel is SP legal.

[nik]

It's only illegal if people complain. Locally I don't think people would care about just a cf hood.

[DelSolBurrow]

hahaha Chas ur a tard! lol

ya i know 2 seconds is a long time in racing (i knew after i typed that that someone would point that out)


I just double checked the rule book and i have no idea where i read that the fly wheel would not be legal...????? Maybe i thought i was in SP section but was really in stock or something.

I mean technically i m kinda screwed in either class so i guess i'll stick to DSP and not waste the money on a cam and the money to install it.

the cf hood is painted...it looks stock lol

but really i should be fine with the hood?

[nik]

the cf hood is painted...it looks stock lol

but really i should be fine with the hood?

Ask your competitors if its okay with them, chances are it will be.

[kevin_stevens]

"It's only illegal if people complain. "

No, it's illegal if the rules don't permit it.

KeS

[DelSolBurrow]

i will do that may 7th then, thanks nik

[woodrufj]

I'd fix it before going to a Tour or divisional. If you get a good competition going in DSP, you'll probably guilt yourself into changing it. But otherwise, you're fine.

Watch what Gary T does in his vettes. That will give you a better idea of real SM2 times.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota
but really i should be fine with the hood?

[kevin_stevens]

So help me understand, then. It's ok to knowingly run an illegal car unless you're going to a Tour or divisional? I didn't see this in the SD supps, maybe it got added for '06? Or it's ok to knowingly run an illegal car until your competitors are forced to complain/protest about it, so *they* look like the poor sports? Or just until they decide to run some illegal part of their own to "compensate" for yours?

Where exactly is that cutoff line of what's acceptable, if it's not the rulebook?

KeS

[nik]

So help me understand, then. It's ok to knowingly run an illegal car unless you're going to a Tour or divisional? I didn't see this in the SD supps, maybe it got added for '06? Or it's ok to knowingly run an illegal car until your competitors are forced to complain/protest about it, so *they* look like the poor sports? Or just until they decide to run some illegal part of their own to "compensate" for yours?

Where exactly is that cutoff line of what's acceptable, if it's not the rulebook?

KeS

Because local events are only about bragging rights and most people just want to have fun and most have enough common sense to realize that something like a cf hood isn't going to make that much difference on a car that isn't prepped to the max anyway.

[kevin_stevens]

Ok, I get the hint - I don't want to have fun and I don't have any common sense. Thanks, my shrink reached the same conclusion and yours was a lot cheaper! But you didn't answer the question.

KeS

[nik]

I wasn't singling you out, though after rereading it seems that way. Sorry.

The cutoff line is whenever your competitors are no longer okay with it and kindly request you move up a class.

The guy who dominated ES last year was on 'illegal' wheels, did we care, no. I ran my 'illegal' 16" street setup on sunday, did they care, no. I know of plenty of cars that aren't technically legal in their class, and their competitors know, and they don't care. A hood isn't an unfair advantage in a daily driver car that isn't prepped to the max of the sp rules.

[kevin_stevens]

Ok, thanks for clarifying. Now, I have three problems with your position.

First, you are putting the burden on the (theoretically legal) competitors to complain about the person who is deliberately being illegal. Most people are reluctant to do this, and will put up with it far after they actually feel injured. I think people should take responsibility for their own behavior, not force others to police them.

Second, you've just defined *your* personal comfort level for cheating. Sorry, "knowingly running an illegal car". Rest assured that different people are going to have different comfort levels. Therefore *everybody* is going to feel badly treated by someone else's personal choice of ethics. The only way to avoid it is to follow an objective guide. For SCCA Solo2 that's the rulebook.

Third, you're speaking for a LOT of people when you say nobody cares unless/until you're winning. How about the other drivers of similar experience who may be trying to compare their times to that of an illegal car? How about the top level driver who kicks butt in their small class, but still indexes off the lesser competition? I've personally had serious problems trying to assess my driving/car development issues (other place, other time) while a close competitor was "experimenting" with illegal parts. Wasted a lot of time trying to figure out why his car was able to do certain things that mine couldn't.

Do I care about some novice running a carbon hood in another class? Not a bit. Do I care about the *attitude* that it's ok to run an illegal car untill someone finds out and protests you (basically forever at a local event). You bet I do. I think it is pervasive, invideous, cancerous, and just plain sucks.

KeS

[nik]

Do I care about the *attitude* that it's ok to run an illegal car untill someone finds out and protests you (basically forever at a local event). You bet I do. I think it is pervasive, invideous, cancerous, and just plain sucks.

Well that would be, that's why you have to be open about it.

We're all adults here. If a competitor did have a problem with it they should be able to request kindly that the offender move up, who should respect their wishes and do so. It's simple.

[Mazda_Gremlyn]

Well I think its pretty out in the open that his car isn't class legal. It was suggested he talk to his competitors in his class and ask about the hood, which he said he will do at the next event. I'd be willing to bet you $20 that DelSolBurrow's times won't change between using a CF hood and not using a CF hood, the weight difference is going to be in the range of 10-15lbs, which may net him an extra horse or so if he is lucky. Im not saying its OK to cheat, but if its OK with the people that it may matter to, then why should there be an issue? I can think of 5 or 6 illegal mods for my class I could do that still wouldn't put me within 2 seconds of the top STX times, I doubt that if I did a few of them that I would hear complaints from my opponents.

[cshodges]

[quote=kevin_stevens]First, you are putting the burden on the (theoretically legal) competitors to complain about the person who is deliberately being illegal./quote]

Actually, it's the SCCA Solo2 rulebook that puts the burden on the competitors to protest a car.

Though, I too agree that you shouldn't knowingly run something illegal until you get caught. However, if you talk to your local competitors before running something a little outside the rules and they're fine, so be it. I wouldn't be fine with it in my class. To me, there are two kinds of autocrossers, A) those that do what they want to their cars and are there to have fun, don't care about the trophy -- fine, pick a class your car is legal in then, or just select SU, and B) those that are going for the points -- these guys definately need to follow the rulebook.

[DelSolBurrow]

OK wow, i had no idea i was going to start this but I will be sticking to SM2

1. it legal

2. When it comes down to my times no one can argue anything if it all legal.

3. I don't want a bad rep at the events