classing question

[Nukesforbreakfast]

I just wanted to make sure I read the rules right. As I understand it by me installing this (http://www.gmpartshouse.com/19212670-lnf-turbo-upgrade-kit.php) I would end up in a sm class not a st class because of the following in the st classing rules:

"1. Reprogrammed ECU (via hardware and/or software) may be used
in the standard housing. Traction control parameters may not be
altered. Altered engine controllers may not alter boost levels in
forced induction engines. Alternate software maps which violate
these restrictions may not be present during competition, regardless
of activation."

because I know that the boost is upped to 23psi from 15.

[jbrennen]

You're right that it wouldn't be legal in any ST class, but I think it would be SP legal. Here's a thread from 2006 which discusses very similar modifications and discusses SP legality: http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=583320

Since you're not touching the turbo hardware -- just intake modifications and an ECU reflash -- it should all be good for DSP. You could also run SMF if you want. Depends on whether you want to get beat by BMWs or by Hondas. :)

[cpasti]

I may not have this right, but I thought you could run an ST car in SP, but the only additional allowance was running any tire you want on the wheels allowed in the respective ST class for the car? Otherwise, SP is Stock plus SP allowances, and the SP rules don't seem to have the ECU allowance that ST does? Seems odd to me, but I don't see where in SP you could do the ECU modification or specifically be able to replace the MAP sensor either. But then I also don't see where ECU modifications and boost increases on FI cars are eligible for SP or SM cars if I'm reading it right (although SM does allow the ST ECU mods as you get to pick amongst Stock, ST and SP allowances at will), which I doubt. That would nearly kill any power adder desire to move up to SP or SM from ST, except to run those nice wheels and tires :drool:

Please correct me where I've gone astray...

[jbrennen]

You can replace the MAP sensors in SP because the intake manifold is free, and the MAP sensors are considered part of the intake manifold. (15.10.C.1)

In SP, you can go far beyond the ECU modifications in ST -- you can replace the entire ECU with an entirely different design, for instance. "Alternate computer control modules may be used whenever an
equivalent change to the conventional system is allowed." (15.1.D) Reprogramming an existing ECU is just a special case of replacing an ECU.

And changes to ignition timing, fuel injection are mentioned under 15.1.D. Changes to boost are allowed by 15.10.C.4.f -- "Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical, and
electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be altered or modified except as prohibited herein."

So a reprogrammed ECU can change timing, fueling, and boost. I'm not sure what else the ECU might change. The "no lift shift" feature might be suspect in SP, but the Cobalt SS apparently already has the "no lift shift" in the stock ECU.


And as far as whether SM is eligible for ECU modifications and boost increases? The SM rules say "Drivetrain and related components (induction, ignition, fuel systems, etc.) are unrestricted except for..." and then it gives basically three limitations -- engine block must be the same manufacturer as the car, must be below a certain displacement, and the fuel system basically must meet certain safety rules. The word "unrestricted" there is a very powerful word for the SM classes, and applies to a very substantial portion of the car.

[Nukesforbreakfast]

No Lift Shift is a stock ECU feature on the cobalt SS but not on the other LNF platforms as I understand it. I'm not really worried about being competitive but I'd at least like to slot into the class where I'd be more near to being competitive that allows that modification. I haven't done anything else to the car as of yet.

[HY.]

Ryan, you'll be closer to competitive if you show up!

And no matter how many sensors and boost you add, you'll always be a buster to me :)

This is me contributing NOTHING to your thread. But you can't bust my balls for using the SCCA forums for consultation anymore :p

[cpasti]

That makes more sense. I was reading those parts too narrowly since ST was very specific about ECU and it semed odd that SP talked about ST cars plus tire allowance for SP.

[nalbar]

SMF is your best bet. Fairly large class. SM might also suit you. Participation changes are expected there next year. Smaller class than SMF.

But,
The best way to get better at auto-x is to actually autocross. If a person only comes to 2-3 events a year......no improvement. And you are far more likely to imprint bad habits. Seat time. Seat time. Seat time.


nalbar

[Nukesforbreakfast]

If I hads me a rich girlfriend like Hank does to buy me khumos and miatas I'd be at every event! :p But thanks for the input!

[HY.]

Hahaha, touche, I picked a good one didn't I? lmao. But in my defense, it's not like tiny little shiny rocks on her ears don't cost the same as a couple tires each! Not to mention that monstrosity you helped me carry up to our apartment!

And as Rae likes to say herself, "Excuses are like a**holes, everyone has one and they stink." Vroom vroom! Show me what those mountain roads have taught you!

[cpasti]

And the cost of a turbo upgrade kit will pay entry fees for a year of racing....

[nalbar]

Now that Marco is running a civic in STX, you can run my car there. The seat is empty.

nalbar

[HY.]

Now that Marco is running a civic in STX, you can run my car there. The seat is empty.

nalbar


Ugh, why do you have to remind me, Warren? My whole season went down the drain with the last event. Imma keep plugging along, but barring some crazy miracle, I'll never dig myself out of the hole for more than 2nd :( 2.4 seconds. OUCH.

Meanwhile, you could lend Ryan a Ferrari, and he still wouldn't show up cause he'd sweat the $30 entry fee. Hahahha, 21 or not man, come on out, offset the cost with fun-runs and socializing. With people.

[Nukesforbreakfast]

And the cost of a turbo upgrade kit will pay entry fees for a year of racing....

I reply to your comment with NNNNNGYYYYRRRRRRR :wallbash: but I knew I was going to get it eventually and a opportunity presented itself to snatch it for $320 and I took it. Possibly not the wisest decision but it has been done.

And its never been the entry fee's, hell I think its the best bang for the buck out there to be completely honest. It's more my tendency to grind my tires down so quickly the federal reserve can't print money fast enough to replace them. And I still am trying to get a better-than-minimum-wage job. :banana:

And Warren, blessed be you for offering me such an opportunity but if I'm going to go out there at all it needs to be in my machine. I am sending you a pm about something else though because you just gave me an idea...

[HY.]

Wait, first you say the main hindrance is destroying your tires, and then you pass up on a man offering for you to run on his? No wonder you're still taking gen-ed classes ;) Whenever Rae finally gets the guts to run the GSR herself I may try to sneak in a run hehehe. Wanna see what that baby can do! (i.e. how much better Marco must be to still be beating me in it lol)

And I agree, Ryan, you couldn't pass the deal up. But if you're worried about your tires, add some camber (you're screwed out of stock class anyway) and that way you can even out the wear at autox!

[Nukesforbreakfast]

How am I going to drive another man's car and not give him a stipend for his tires? That's just not right!

[HY.]

Because the man knows you're but a boy :)

But seriously, that's good that you'd want to pay him back for his tires. Obviously, if everyone took advantage of his generosity, it would get crazy. But I have a feeling he only offers the car to those who aren't necessarily in the positoin to race their own.

And yes, you can drive my car and I won't make you pay a stipend. You would be responsible for changing out my wheels though :)