New member with car question

[Killdozer]

Lemme give you a little back story:
I've always been interested in Autocross and I've attended a few of the events at the Q. I have 8 more months in college and I plan on getting a fun new car after I get settled (job, retirement accounts, put a dent into my college debt). One might say, "Why is he posting this? None of this will really matter because decision time is over a year away?" Well, it's because I'm down for the count with back surgery and I have a lot of time on my hands. The way I'm set up is that my bed is placed in a way that if I lay one way I face the TV and if I lay the other way I face the computer. (Wireless FTW)

So, back to business. I was considering a few cars that seemed like they might fit the bill. I'd like to get an MX-5 but I really need four seats, maybe I can get one as a project car later on. This car needs to be my daily driver and it can't be too expensive like $30 or anything like that and I'd like it to be new. EVOs and STIs are cool it's just that I need something a little more refined. Anywho, the others were a Subaru WRX, Civic SI, and VW GTI.

My brother had a 99 2.5RS that he modded to hell(FI and suspension) and it was lots of fun. He has a new 2006WRX. The '06 seems a lot quicker than the previous generation of Impreza WRXs(you know, the first WRX that we've had in the US) but it's also pretty big. I've driven it but I haven't had a chance to really thrash it around and see how it feels.

The next is the new Civic SI. Seems like a nice handling car from magazine reviews and the LSD is a nice feature. I also like the relatively low price. One thing I was considering was driving it around for a year or so and then putting on a Jackson Supercharger to give it a little more...torque.... The only question I have with this is what class will adding the supercharger put me in?

The last car I was considering was the new MKV GTI. I've never been a VW fan but this seems like a nice car. It does weigh more than the civic, and it does cost a lot more. I like the engine but I haven't read much about how it performs on the track.

As for my driving experience my first car was a 91 Supra Turbo I had for three years 'till the head gasket exploded. Things happened. Now I drive a 2004 Toyota Matrix XR Auto.... I've also driven various configurations of EVOs, Impreza WRXs, and my brothers 2.5RS. I really don't like the FWD experience that I'm having with my Matrix (torque steer, no LSD, understeer) so I'd have to do a lot of test driving before really going with the GTI or SI. AWD is fine with me but there's only one car in the price range that has that feature and is a car I actually like. As for RWD, sigh, there just aren't many compact cars that have it.

So, in conclusion, if anyone could put down their experiences and opinions it would be greatly appreciated. (I've read the GTI thread that's here, but looking for more info)

[woodrufj]

... Civic SI. MKV GTI.... The Civic has been getting the props. Additional discussion about the pair happend on SCCAforums.com.

The previous gen Impressa WRX seems like one of the best all around (i.e. compromise) cars for enthusiset right now. The price is dropping since the '06 came out. If left in stock form you can race Solo and RallyX competitively, and it still has a roomy 4door config.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[Killdozer]

Wow, thanks for the link! I was at that site before but I didn't venture into the forums. The threads were very informative and I appreciate the pointer.

After reading everything it looks like I'm learning more for the Civic SI and WRX. The GTI just seems too heavy and with no LSD and lots of torque on the low end it's going to be wheel spin city. I still have to give my brother's 06 WRX a good test drive but I know with a good suspension setup they can handle pretty neutrally (at least his old 99 2.5RS did after suspension work)

I look forward to the aftermarket possibilities with the SI and how they compete in their class.

[froggy47]

Here's another

http://solo2.org/forums/

Look here for what cars won nat's last year.

http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/2005SoloNationals-FINALresults.pdf

If you want to work on your driving rather than modding your car (and don't mind buying another set of rims & stickies) go Stock.

If you want to mod a little & stay on street tires go Street Touring.


Of course there's more but to get your feet wet I'd pick one of those two.

How about a B Stock RX8? Should be some used ones on the market by now, RWD fun.

PS Get well soon.

:)

[frosty]

Unless you don't have much experience with it, I'd recommend a RWD car with moderate power. I drive a WRX, and these are known to understeer by the owners (partially due to design, but this can be fixed with tuning / parts).

I don't doubt that the WRX can do well in stock class, but I think that most owners end up wanting to do mods to their car that puts them in STX. The suspension feels soft and the turbo lag is pretty big. Street Touring has it's advantages: you don't have to spend $800 on a set of tires that will last less than 100 laps.

To sum up: if you get a WRX and you autox, figure that you'll end up spending 2-3k on parts and such. You'll find out about fun things like sway and extremely soft bushings or turbo lag that will drive you nuts and make you want to fix them.

[cshodges]

You'll still wind up spending $800 a year on street tires. 12k miles plus a year's worth of autocross did in two sets of tires on my car (over two years, not one). You can spend money on the suspension and keep it in stock rules. You're stuck with the turbo lag in stock. About the only intake mod that stock allows is a K&N filter (oem size).

I'm betting that the Civic will be the most civil as a daily driver.

As for the MX-5, when you get around to it, you can pick up the 1st gen's for around $3-4k, if memory serves, and they make excellent autox/project cars. Maybe less if you can find something with a few dings and a not-so-great interior and you don't care, because you're just going to autocross it.

[rodger]

Cars Direct shows Si's selling for $23.8K, and RX-8's $24.2. If competative autocross in the stock classes is your goal, the proven Rx-8 is a better bet than the Si, GTI or new WRX. Feeding it 18 inch tires can be a budget killer though.
Anyway, you're the guy who knows your needs, not any of us.

[Killdozer]

As for keeping the Civic stock: Yeah, I plan on keeping it pretty stock until I'm very comfortable with the car. Of course I will have to do wheels/tires and probably some suspension work, but nothing major. Down the line I might want to go FI on it but who knows at that point. I might like it as it is or I might want to add some more power.

The new 2006 WRXs really don't seem to have the turbo lag of the previous generation. The new 2.5L engine gives it plenty of 'go' off the line. Yeah, it will probably understeer a bit but that will be an easy fix.

I've never really considered the RX-8 before. I'll have to look into it. The only negative thing I can think of right now is bad gas mileage as a commuter car...or is that a misconception?


Also, how much modification can I do to a Civic SI or a WRX before I get bumped to a different class?


EDIT: So it looks like the 2006 Civic SI will be in G Stock. I took a look at the national winners for GS and it seems like 90% of them were MiniCooperS, and then the only sizable group of cars was Celica’s. The 2006 Nationals aren't too far away so I might get to see how the Civic SI compares to the rest of the competition.

[frosty]

To stay in the stock class, you can only do the following (for each car, it's about the same):

Air filter element (K&N box filter)
Shocks (nothing too complex)
Tires
Wheels (same size but lighter)
Cat-back exhaust
Wheel Alignment
Edit:
Front Sway Bar and mounting hardware
Fluids

Am I forgetting anything?

[rodger]

Am I forgetting anything?
Front Sway Bar and mounting hardware.
Brake pads.
Fluids are free.

Rx-8, all the efficiency of a V8, with 1/2 the torque. ;)