Regional Allowances

[chapmanr]

Question for discussion:

Should the regional board allow waivers of minor exceptions to car preparation rules?

Randy, how about a poll? Just for fun.

[RandyC]

Added poll. Let me know if you want to change the wording. I was trying to be neutral. :)

[RandyC]

This to me, opens up a HUGE can of worms.

1. Are these blanket exceptions, or are we thinking the board will listen to everyone with a special request?

2. What if I am running in a class, let's say I am winning by a slight margin. Competitor who is close to me in times wants to run his wider rims on his car and asks the board for an exception and they grant it. Then he starts winning. What is my recourse? Can I ask the board to remove the exception, since they want to be friendly and helpful you know. What about the guy who is bone stock?

3. Don't we have classes for more allowed levels of prep?

4. How can you police this? Would you go up to Joe Blow at an event and say "Hey, I don't think that it is legal to use those suspension mods." And he replies... "Yep, but I got an exception from the board".

5. Where does it end? We really going to vote on all allowable mods?

[nalbar]

Define 'minor'.


nalbar

[kjchristopher]

Define 'minor'.


nalbar

"insignificant".
:)

[nalbar]

Define 'insignificant', be specific as to how a particular mod is 'insignificant', particularly as it applies to Stock classes.



nalbar, small 'n'

[-W-]

I agree that this could open a can of worms that would be difficult to reverse. I guess I'd need to see examples of what 'minor' refers to but think general blanket rules would be abused and there'd be endless debates on any proposed or approved minor allowances.

[itrbruce]

Define 'insignificant', be specific as to how a particular mod is 'insignificant', particularly as it applies to Stock classes.



nalbar, small 'n'

supercharger, intercooler, cold air intake, ECU tune, wider wheels ... :D

[froggy47]

I think an LS7 engine in place of my LS6 is totally insignificant, it's only one digit more.

:D

[chapmanr]

i would define minor as something that's relatively cosmetic in nature, or to class a car that the SCCA hasn't gotten around to. Like, say a Roush:>

[chapmanr]

Another thing that comes to mind is an older car which might be repaired with parts from another model year. If its a different part number and not a supercedure, technically you're not stock any more.

[cpasti]

Define 'minor'.


nalbar

I'd say minor means not enough for anyone locally to protest it, therefore it's moot for any formal determination. If someone's willing to protest over something, then it's not minor to someone and it's off to the rule books. Keeps its simple and off the slippery slope.

[Steve35]

This to me, opens up a HUGE can of worms.

1. Are these blanket exceptions, or are we thinking the board will listen to everyone with a special request?

2. What if I am running in a class, let's say I am winning by a slight margin. Competitor who is close to me in times wants to run his wider rims on his car and asks the board for an exception and they grant it. Then he starts winning. What is my recourse? Can I ask the board to remove the exception, since they want to be friendly and helpful you know. What about the guy who is bone stock?

3. Don't we have classes for more allowed levels of prep?

4. How can you police this? Would you go up to Joe Blow at an event and say "Hey, I don't think that it is legal to use those suspension mods." And he replies... "Yep, but I got an exception from the board".

5. Where does it end? We really going to vote on all allowable mods?

Couldn't have said it better myself. If you don't like the class, come up with your own. That's how we have non national classes like SU and IS1-3.
But be prepared for a big up hill battle to get it thru.

[nalbar]

I'd say minor means not enough for anyone locally to protest it, therefore it's moot for any formal determination. If someone's willing to protest over something, then it's not minor to someone and it's off to the rule books.



BINGO!!!

I agree completely. Nicely said.


nalbar

[RandyC]

i would define minor as something that's relatively cosmetic in nature, or to class a car that the SCCA hasn't gotten around to. Like, say a Roush:>


The problem is, playing devil's advocate here... is who defines the terms minor and "relatively cosmetic?"

And I can also claim my Noble or Rossion is a stock class car, because heck, the SCCA just has not gotten around to classing it.

Seems simpler to use the present methods. You can't remove your sun visors in stock. You can change your pedals. You can't install a stiffening bar across your shock towers. You can't install a wing, diffuser, or splitter. You can't use any rims you want. Etc etc etc. And I would guarantee if you made it official that "minor" and "relatively cosmetic" mods were allowed, every one of those will have someone claiming that it applies to them.

[RandyC]

And the thing is.. WE are a friendly region to people with some mods. How? By creating special classes, including one where you can run anything that is street legal. We created our own street tire classes. And we allow you to run in X class, we don't demand you run that Roush in MOD class.

Want to see how you would have done in FS in a car that is not FS legal? Easy, you run X in the same run group and use your own results. Want a year end trophy in that class? Then you need to follow the rules of that class. It is that simple.

Way back when, I was running CS in my stock class, I had some old 15" rims laying around and for some reason my race rubber on the 14" stock wheels was not available. I figured, what the heck, it was a small thing and if anything, I would be slower. Steve (the same Steve35 above) pulled me aside before I ran and asked if I was running 15" rims. I said sure, not a big deal. And he said "you just can't do that."

And even if I thought he was a dick at the time :) he was 100% right. Does not matter if I felt it was not a help. Does not matter if I felt it was a small change. Does not matter what I FEEL about it. It was simply not legal.

[73STS]

And even if I thought he was a dick at the time :) he was 100% right. Does not matter if I felt it was not a help. Does not matter if I felt it was a small change. Does not matter what I FEEL about it. It was simply not legal.

You're not starting to have feelings like this about sound are you:waving:

[RandyC]

You're not starting to have feelings like this about sound are you:waving:


Nope. Not one bit.

But since many people have trouble with critical thinking and get confused... I have always been in favor of our sound limits. I just think how we police it, leaves a lot to be desired. The reasons all are still there.

I was always in favor of the rules also. So I know you are joking, but my perception of the rules never has changed. But my perceptions of people sure do. Over time, I have come to really respect Mr. Coe as one of the best people in this sport. And some people certainly mean well, even if their thinking is often flawed. And some others... well, I am certain that they are dicks. :)

Not you of course.

To put a point on it, I never argued with Steve about that rule... never tried to run anyway... never debated it on a forum or the Team.NET email list. I knew the rule made sense then.

[Steve35]

Wait, are there two Mr. Coe's out there?:p

Thanks for the kudos Randy