I'm sure we've been over this.....

[JamesWilson]

....a THOUSAND TIMES, but why oh why must, if you RUN in group #2, do you WORK in group #1?

Seems like a lot of wasted energy towards getting the event done at a reasonable hour and make everyone happy, yet I get to hear the announcer tomorrow morning wonder (aloud) why the grids are empty, and that we are the reason that the events run long, and that all of our times are going to be thrown out. If you've never heard it, it's a real treat.


Sooooooooooo

If anyone is wondering where I am come the start of Run Group #2, I'm still up on the far side of course trying to make it down to fire up my cold car as the announcer bemoans our tardiness.

Geez, I'm starting to sound like Bob B........(no offense, keep tellin' it like it is!)

Rant mode off, just the first thing in my head as I printed out the even flier tonight.

-JW

[frosty]

The exact thing happened today between the first and second groups at the practice. Everyone who had been working the course was either just reaching their cars or standing in line at one of two or three port-a-potties.

[MX5bob]

....a THOUSAND TIMES, but why oh why must, if you RUN in group #2, do you WORK in group #1?

Seems like a lot of wasted energy towards getting the event done at a reasonable hour and make everyone happy, yet I get to hear the announcer tomorrow morning wonder (aloud) why the grids are empty, and that we are the reason that the events run long, and that all of our times are going to be thrown out. If you've never heard it, it's a real treat.


Sooooooooooo

If anyone is wondering where I am come the start of Run Group #2, I'm still up on the far side of course trying to make it down to fire up my cold car as the announcer bemoans our tardiness.

Geez, I'm starting to sound like Bob B........(no offense, keep tellin' it like it is!)

Rant mode off, just the first thing in my head as I printed out the even flier tonight.

-JW
Who, me?

But now that you mention it, why is that hard for someone to figure out that it'll take time for workers to leave course and move cars to grid? It ain't rocket science.

[nalbar]

And to top it off, some people/clubs want a 'closed' grid, so if the cars have started their second (or even first) run and you are 'late' you can't get in and you lose your runs (which you have PAID for, and which you have already WORKED for).

Obviuosly people who work the trailer and not the course.


I can understand the 1/2 group problem, there is an odd number of groups. But the fact is our events are NOT going all that slow. They are finishing in a timely fasion.

It's another example of people caring SOOOOOO much what others are doing.



nalbar

[woodrufj]

8 group format flows better. But our numbers got too low at one point to support 8 groups so we went back to 6. I looks to me like the numbers are really coming back up though. If the attendance sticks, it would be nice to switch to 8.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[froggy47]

I like 8 if there are enough workers to cover course. What James said is precisely what happened today. T&S calling for cars, I'm in line for a toilet, I had my car prepped to go, but the oil is stone cold.

Maybe we need to run eight and shift some workers from trailer to course if needed.

Today (course it was a small lot) we had plenty of workers on course for run group 1.

What was the turnout?

:)

[JamesWilson]

My prediction came true! Nostrajamesus is always right!

You can read all about my other predictions in the best-seller "The DaWilson Code", where I unlock all of life's secrets encoded in the 2006 Supplemental Regulations...............

-JW:D

[ULLLOSE]

What if you stay with six but split the workers....

Am 3 run/work
Pm 3 run/work

1 runs and half of 2 and 3 work
2 runs half of 1 and the other half of 3 work
3 runs the other half of 1 and 2 work
Same in the Pm group.
This might speed up the change over as half the guys are on hand ready to go. Could be broken down by car class within each heat.

Or just go with 4 heats total one runs one works AM then one of each PM. I think with the current car count 8 run groups is nuts. Even though you may save some time on the worker change over 2nd driver cars will always hold things up because the run groups are way to small with 8 heats.

[froggy47]

2nd driver cars will always hold things up because the run groups are way to small with 8 heats.

Good point, even with 6 groups (yesterday) which made the groups bigger we were waiting on 2nd driver cars to finish (work group one anyway)

Also I ran 2nd and there was barely enough time in a one driver car to check air pressure and get up to the start line.

split 8 ways it would have been even worse (quicker) with smaller groups.

Some maybe we stick with 6 until we get our numbers up on a cosistent basis.

Let's just beat up the next T&S person who complains that the drivers WHO JUST WORKED are slow getting to the grid.

:)

[73STS]

yet I get to hear the announcer tomorrow morning wonder (aloud) why the grids are empty, and that we are the reason that the events run long, and that all of our times are going to be thrown out. If you've never heard it, it's a real treat.


Sooooooooooo

If anyone is wondering where I am come the start of Run Group #2, I'm still up on the far side of course trying to make it down to fire up my cold car as the announcer bemoans our tardiness.

Geez, I'm starting to sound like Bob B........(no offense, keep tellin' it like it is!)

Rant mode off, just the first thing in my head as I printed out the even flier tonight.

-JW


Giving some people a microphone with no limitations is like letting some people use a keyboard with internet access. You never know what will come out. :)
I guess that's the beauty of free speech.

[frosty]

Let's just beat up the next T&S person who complains that the drivers WHO JUST WORKED are slow getting to the grid.

:)

I'm in favor of this proposal.

[barkingspyder]

If we need to stick with 6 run/work groups because of total turnout then we need to set a reasonable time limit between groups to avoid the arbitrary "you're late" calls for the next group.

[froggy47]

If we need to stick with 6 run/work groups because of total turnout then we need to set a reasonable time limit between groups to avoid the arbitrary "you're late" calls for the next group.


Or we need to put some dymo tape on the mic that says "Turn on brain b4 you turn on the mic"

We are all they to get our runs in fer criss sake, most of us are hustling to get in grid, don't need anybody grabbin the mic, running their mouth saying where's the cars?

Not directed at any specific person, just use your common sense if you are going to announce.

I don't mind "you are late to work" announcements, some people do need a nudge to get the work requirement done. But very very few people need encouragement to get in grid & get the fun part going.

Having opined on this thread three times, I would like to add that it was a very nice event. Thanks DCCSD. I never ran an event on that lot flat out thru the Jersey barriers, adds a bit of pucker factor if you catch my drift. And the final 1/3 or so of the course, sweet baby sweet.

Is that the first time a club ran the course thru the k rail ? I could get to like that SE lot. And putting the pit on the west side of the street saved a lot of congestion. Kudos to whoever had that idea. Thinking outside the box. Lucky the million dollar motorhomes didn't have that staked out for Sunday like they did on Sat.

What was turnout? Seemed light? Under 200? I had to leave early.

[ASP 159]

Trying to keep a crowd entertained for an hour by carrying on a conversation with yourself is not an easy task. Been there done that, never again. All who are berating the announcer whom ever he/she was should let your mouth do the talking and not the keyboard. Sign up for the job.

[MX5bob]

Trying to keep a crowd entertained for an hour by carrying on a conversation with yourself is not an easy task. Been there done that, never again. All who are berating the announcer whom ever he/she was should let your mouth do the talking and not the keyboard. Sign up for the job.

You need to go back a re-read the posts. What's being discussed here has nothing to do with announcing what car is finishing and the time. It's about ANYBODY getting on the mic only minutes after a group finishes and barking at drivers, who JUST finished working, to get to grid. At times, these complaints include idle threats about throwing out times.

[ASP 159]

You need to go back a re-read the posts. What's being discussed here has nothing to do with announcing what car is finishing and the time. It's about ANYBODY getting on the mic only minutes after a group finishes and barking at drivers, who JUST finished working, to get to grid. At times, these complaints include idle threats about throwing out times.

But now that you mention it, why is that hard for someone to figure out that it'll take time for workers to leave course and move cars to grid? It ain't rocket science

Obviuosly people who work the trailer and not the course.

Let's just beat up the next T&S person who complains that the drivers WHO JUST WORKED are slow getting to the grid.


I'm in favor of this proposal

Or we need to put some dymo tape on the mic that says "Turn on brain b4 you turn on the mic

Not directed at any specific person, just use your common sense if you are going to announce.

Gee Bob, I must have taken it the wrong way

[froggy47]

You need to go back a re-read the posts. What's being discussed here has nothing to do with announcing what car is finishing and the time. It's about ANYBODY getting on the mic only minutes after a group finishes and barking at drivers, who JUST finished working, to get to grid. At times, these complaints include idle threats about throwing out times.


I agree, I am NOT complaining about announcing "in general". Our "regular" announcers are all great. They do better than I probably could. Just CUT US A BREAK when we are rushing off course to jump in our car and get to grid. Most of us do all that is humanly possible to get in grid quick, but it takes a few minutes, that's all.

Sunday was a one grid setup, so there was not even a chance to pre grid the next run group. Not a criticism, just stating the facts. Maybe for future reference we should always have a 2 grid setup when we run 6 groups. Trying to be constructive here.

:D

[MX5bob]

But now that you mention it, why is that hard for someone to figure out that it'll take time for workers to leave course and move cars to grid? It ain't rocket science

Obviuosly people who work the trailer and not the course.

Let's just beat up the next T&S person who complains that the drivers WHO JUST WORKED are slow getting to the grid.


I'm in favor of this proposal

Or we need to put some dymo tape on the mic that says "Turn on brain b4 you turn on the mic

Not directed at any specific person, just use your common sense if you are going to announce.

Gee Bob, I must have taken it the wrong way

Bob [ASP 159],

None of those comments are about ANY portion of announcing other than those times when people who have just worked are being treated like melingerers for not having their cars in grid. It's gonna take some time to walk from the far end of a course to where someone is gridded and put the car in grid. I've had trouble getting my car ready and to grid when working first and running second.

All we're saying here is that some people need to chill out. That's all.

[ULLLOSE]

We have two grids at each event now right??? So if you work 1 and run 2why don't the group two cars park in grid before they go out to work?

[woodrufj]

We have two grids at each event now right??? So if you work 1 and run 2why don't the group two cars park in grid before they go out to work?
Not always.

Doesn't really do much good to have cars in grid with out drivers anyways. In fact it can trap some of those who are ready.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

[jason]

Just do like me and ignore what the announcers are saying. If you know you run directly after you work, then you should have your car pretty much ready to go before you go out to work. It'll take some time for all the workers and cars to get set, so there's not a huge rush.

Funny thing is, the announcer is usually part of the same work group that's out on course and should know the situation. Duh! :confused:

[ASP 159]

Bob [ASP 159],


All we're saying here is that some people need to chill out. That's all.

I Agree

Bob Blackmon

[LarryC]

Some clubs/announcers are still hung up on the "change worker on-the-fly" procedure. The reason we started doing worker change over on-the-flyer was to minimize down time between run groups. It was a time saver when we had over 300 entries and try to get class runs completed before dark or 5 P.M. With 7 worker group changes in 8 run groups you can waste more then an hour just for worker change over. But all this was before we started using real time scoring software.

One of the goals of the using computer scoring software is to have results available shortly after each run group is completed. But this requires auditing of the pylon count and sound sheets and fixing any scoring errors. The current software uses one computer for scoring, one for announcing and one for registration. This means we can't score runs and make corrections at the same time.

Audits can only be performed at the end of the run group which may take 5 to 10 min. to complete. Without the break between run groups the best that can be done is an un-audited print out and even that will take time to perform. So the clubs/drivers need to decide what they want: audited results, un-audited results or minimize down time between run groups.

[Dan_K]

Maybe some of the workers need to get in shape? :)

[RickRacer]

Some clubs/announcers are still hung up on the "change worker on-the-fly" procedure. The reason we started doing worker change over on-the-flyer was to minimize down time between run groups. It was a time saver when we had over 300 entries and try to get class runs completed before dark or 5 P.M. With 7 worker group changes in 8 run groups you can waste more then an hour just for worker change over. But all this was before we started using real time scoring software.

One of the goals of the using computer scoring software is to have results available shortly after each run group is completed. But this requires auditing of the pylon count and sound sheets and fixing any scoring errors. The current software uses one computer for scoring, one for announcing and one for registration. This means we can't score runs and make corrections at the same time.

Audits can only be performed at the end of the run group which may take 5 to 10 min. to complete. Without the break between run groups the best that can be done is an un-audited print out and even that will take time to perform. So the clubs/drivers need to decide what they want: audited results, un-audited results or minimize down time between run groups.

Actually you can add a 4th computer for auditing. The latest revision of the software supports an "Admin" computer for that purpose.

[LarryC]

Actually you can add a 4th computer for auditing. The latest revision of the software supports an "Admin" computer for that purpose.

It's good to hear that they listen to the user's inputs. That was one of our first requests when we found out we couldn't audit and make corrections during the run group. We'll have to look into upgrading our software to the lastest version ASAP.

Thanks for the info.

[CNaylor]

It's good to hear that they listen to the user's inputs. That was one of our first requests when we found out we couldn't audit and make corrections during the run group. We'll have to look into upgrading our software to the lastest version ASAP.

Thanks for the info.

Although with some trepidation on my part this last Sunday to audit live based on past experiance in SD, we did do it with no issues (at least not before I left around noon). We were even able to re-class (both number and class) errantly registered people live during runs. Admin capabilities were definattly an improvement.

[aslaveofaudio]

If we have 6 groups why can't we do the following...?

.:Run | Work:.
...1...|...4...
...2...|...5...
...3...|...6...
...4...|...1...
...5...|...2...
...6...|...3...


everyone works, everyone gets a break between work and play (2 sessions worth of a break), and we can even line up/call up the next run group while the current one is finishing up which should get the lag time down. last weekend i was run2/work1 and while i was walking in there was an empty grid (!), i don't know if this is useful for managment b/c it gives them time to get things together but the announcer sure didn't seem like he was backing off.

the only reasons this wouldn't work is if we DON'T have six groups (altho it would work with any even number of groups), 2 sessions is too long of a break, or certain classes have work/run together.

[frosty]

There's a very good reason why not to do that. You have so big of a gap between your run and work group that you are basically at the event for the entire day. It's not exactly the end of the world, but people who don't run until the afternoon have to be there early and people who run in the morning have to be there until late in the afternoon.

[cshodges]

At lot of times, people can only come for half the day. We hold registration open until 12-12:30 for people running after lunch for that reason. We keep the morning run/work groups together, and the afternoon run/work groups together.

When the number of entrants gets large enough that it becomes problematic, we switch to an 8 run group format, and do on-the-fly course worker changes. However, when the number of entrants drops, there aren't enough workers in each run group, so we drop back to a 6 group format. We lose the efficiency, but on the flip side, we can afford the extra time at that point.