Class Letters and Numbers

[kartdriver]

After much discussion about lettering/numbers on vehicles at SDR events, blue "painters" tape will not be acceptable at the SCAT event tech area this weekend. Please come to tech with your vehicle classed and numbered.

If you require letters/numbers, please go to the tech area to make your choices after throwing a dollar donation into the can. Timing and scoring will greatly appreciate your help.

Scott

[Steve35]

Having worked the trailer many times, I love you guys for this! :rock2:

thanks

[nalbar]

SCAT,
While it is true that the Board has spent a lot of time lately discussing 'good' and 'bad' numbers, we have NEVER discussed or agreed to ban tape numbers. In fact, our chief of Timing and Scoring has specifically stated he does not mind tape numbers. He objects to numbers you cannot read because of color (wants contrast with car color), location, and size.

I would refer you to our Sub Regs;
http://www.sdr-scca.com/solo2/docs/2010_Supp_Reg.pdf

Rule;
--
3.5.12 All entrants must have their car number displayed on the vehicle during a run in accordance
with National Solo Rules. This applies to all event types and all run types (championship, practice, fun runs, club runs, etc.)
--

That is ALL our local rules say. Notice no out right banning of tape numbers.

The SCCA rules are here;
http://scca.com/documents/Solo_Rules/2010_scca_solo_rules.pdf

Page 38 is where you will find the rules that San Diego has decided to use. Once again, no out right banning of tape numbers. 8" high, contrasting colors.

Yes, we all want to get legible numbers on all cars. But going overboard and rejecting (arbitrarily, with no actual rule to back you up) numbers because of the material used (even when perfectly legal) is not the way to treat fellow club (SCCA) members.

Legal numbers are legal numbers. If you reject them, it's YOU who will be violating our rules.

The reason I care is because it's the little things that get people to come back. Enforcing made up rules on noobs while turning a blind eye to those you know (yes, you do. don't bother denying it) is not a way to build participation. Being fair and reasonable to ALL participants is.




nalbar

[itrbruce]

Speaking of the rules... here they are from section 3.7 (emphasis mine)

D. Numbers and class letters should be positioned next to each
other. All letters and numbers must be on body panels, not on
windows. All numbers and class letters must use the same
typeface and the same color, and this color must provide adequate
contrast to the background color (see Appendix F for
examples).
E. Numbers must be a minimum of 8" high with a 1.25" stroke.
Class letters must be a minimum of 4" high with a 0.75" stroke.
In all cases, the height of the class letters must be between 25%
and 75% of the height of the numbers. Stroke width must be at
least 10% of the height. (See Appendix F.)
F. The “1” on two-driver cars and the “L” on Ladies class cars are
subject to all of the above requirements with regard to placement,
color, size, and stroke.
G. Karts may use numbers and class letters of reduced size provided
that the following conditions are met: 1) Numbers must be
displayed on the front and rear in addition to both sides; 2) Class
letters must be on both sides; 3) In no case may the numbers be
smaller than 6" in height with ¾” stroke, using a high-contrast
color and background.

The emphasis I added addresses some of the common issues that some of the people here violate (not just the people using tape). The violation of the rules most of the tape users have is the 1.25" stroke. I personally don't care if people use tape or not... as long as the numbers are readily readable from across 1/2 the width of the parking lot regardless of where the sun is, if it is raining, etc...

[Frank S]

I'd be willing to coach users of non-blue tape. Reckon there is no question as to legibility, although it seems the final "PID" has blown off somewhere.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4040/4538988041_31ea015e85_o.jpg

[kartdriver]

Warren,

We are not trying to make life difficult for entrants. We are only trying to help where we can. Our club will be, and has always been, very fair on the issue with new and veteran autocrossers. I posted what I thought was a polite message enforcing a rule regarding acceptable vehicle markings. As for your accusations...? Damn! I am not trying to violate the rules, nor am I trying to deny anything.

I agree there are some vehicles with less than desirable markings as well. A few years back, I was asked to separate my numbers so they would not be so close together. I obliged without argument.

Next time you choose to voice your opinion towards me, maybe you should keep it to yourself.

[nalbar]

Warren,

I posted what I thought was a polite message enforcing a rule regarding acceptable vehicle markings.

Next time you choose to voice your opinion towards me, maybe you should keep it to yourself.

So much for 'reasonable'.

Scott, could you please show me in the rules where tape numbers are not allowed?

nalbar

[Bimota Guy]

I submit it is impossible to meet the "same typeface" part of the rule with tape. :banana:

[woodrufj]

Scott, could you please show me in the rules where tape numbers are not allowed?Since we're playing 'a few good men', I can show you where the paper numbers we hand out are illegal.

Jay W

[Matt G.]

As one who has worked the radio for cone counts, the biggest problem I have had reading numbers is the contrast of number to background. Black letters on a red background or vice versa is not easy to see from a distance. If the tape numbers are large enough to see from a distance and have contrast with the background, they are readable. Of course printed numbers are much better and they are only a buck donation for goodness sake....:)

Should be a good weekend with the rain cleaning the pavement (I hope)

Matt G.

[frosty]

Since we're playing 'a few good men', I can show you where the paper numbers we hand out are illegal.

Jay W

You can't handle the ...erm... paper numbers. :thwack:

(I'll go back to the peanut gallery now)

[RandyC]

Well... I have used both many times, specially as someone with a codriver in cars that are not metal (magnets don't stick and the vinyl graphics eventually get all crappy).

I do not believe a club can pass a rule dictating beyond our own rulebook and supp requirements, it could be too arbitrary. What the club can do is enforce the rules that are already there.

Can someone make proper numbers with tape? Of course they can. Do most? Probably not. Can I make crap numbers with magnets and scissors? Sure. Enforce the rules we already have.

You can use tape and get enough contrast. You can use tape and do a 1.5" stroke. If you use care, you can make a nice looking font. And painters tape does not hurt the paint on my cars or leave residue (the white tape in tech does).

Just use common sense and ask yourself if you can read the letters and numbers at a good distance. Yes or no? That is all. That is the point of the rule right? Does not matter if your sensibilities are offended or if you feel people just need to follow rules better so one can feel superior.

Just my 2 cents.

[Pervis]

Since the paper numbers we provide are not 8 inches tall, they are unusable also.

What do we use now SCAT ???

[nalbar]

they are only a buck donation for goodness sake....

Matt G.

I hear this a LOT from various members of our Region. In our Region right now we have;

a) One club that wants to raise entry fees from 30 to 35 ("It's only 5 bucks, what's the big deal?")

b) a different club that wants to raise the Solo Day Pass from 5 to 10 ("It's only 5 bucks, what's the big deal?")

c) and a different club that wants to FORCE that one buck 'donation' ("it's only a buck for goodness sake....")

Let's assume they all got their way. It would cost a noob SIXTY-ONE dollars to run a champ event, for maybe THREE runs. Do the 'per run' math! Then there is tire wear and lunch off the wagon. How will the region ever grow if we charge people 20+ dollars a run (and make them work for an hour and a half)?

There is also an image problem. They come to my line and I charge 15 (SCCA) and 5 (Solo) and then they go to the registration line and they charge 30 and then they go to the tech line and they INSIST on a 'donation'. Everywhere they go they get charged. It makes us look like greedy a$$holes.

How about we give the noobs a break and try to be as understanding and reasonable as we can, while enforcing the rules we have? Can we all agree that WE WANT PEOPLE TO COME BACK?

It's true that my 'tone' could have been better in my original post. But I am on the front lines at every single event. I at least want a rule that I can fall back on when I explain what is happening.

BTW, everyone would be shocked if they knew how many people who come out are a dollar or two or three (or five) short and could not run if I did not make it up out of my petty cash. Funny how some clubs suddenly don't feel it is 'only' a buck or two and would send those people packing (I've seen it happen, and have had to step in). 'Only' a buck usually means it's someone else's buck.

nalbar

[kartdriver]

All previous messages hold merit. I should have been more clear on the blue tape rather than a general command.:o
If a contrasting vehicle comes to tech with blue tape numbers of "reasonable" size, that car will pass tech. Yes, this goes against my non clarified "no blue painters tape comment" earlier. We just don't want it to look like a 4 year old was let loose with tape. Neither do the volunteer workers.

As far as the "illegal" paper numbers the region provides as mentioned previously... Cut the salary we all get for doing this and provide me with a stick of wood and a sharpie. I will make you a ruler that when held next to our paper numbers reads, 8 inches.:thwack:

Next!!!:poke:
:D

[froggy47]

I am not jumping into this "discussion" except for this one comment.

A bigger problem that I see (when working course) is "our" paper numbers that a poorly attached to the cars and blow off or loose while on course.

The numbers should overlap so that the opening is NOT facing forward like an air duct

or

tape each individually

and

use enough tape.

Yeah I know it's just common sense, but sometimes a noob just needs to be shown. Those that are running paper numbers all year should have it figured out by now.

Looking forward to the weekend.

:)

[nalbar]

The numbers should overlap so that the opening is NOT facing forward like an air duct



This is an extremely difficult concept for many people to grasp.


nalbar

[kartdriver]

I am not jumping into this "discussion" except for this one comment.

A bigger problem that I see (when working course) is "our" paper numbers that a poorly attached to the cars and blow off or loose while on course.

The numbers should overlap so that the opening is NOT facing forward like an air duct

or

tape each individually

and

use enough tape.

Yeah I know it's just common sense, but sometimes a noob just needs to be shown. Those that are running paper numbers all year should have it figured out by now.

Looking forward to the weekend.

:)


Yes!!! Use the blue tape here! :p