Tire Question (not rare on here) [Archive] - San Diego Region SCCA Forums

DelSolBurrow

10-29-2009, 10:19 AM

I was trying to decide what to run next year since there are a few options. I ran the XS this year and I liked them a lot and they have stayed competitive enough all year for me. I know they lack in the straight line braking grip and I was toying with the idea of switching to Toyo's or the Hankook RS-3. Out of the the XS, R1R, and RS-3 my biggest concern is life. Will the R1R or RS-3 last an entire season like my XS have?

nalbar

10-29-2009, 10:25 AM

DelSolBurrow

10-29-2009, 10:28 AM

Jon L says they wear strange because of my driving style. Jon is full of $hit. I have seen at least 5 different cars with the same wear pattern. I really like them, but I won't buy them again.

nalbar

rofl

I just noticed RS-3's have a 140 tread wear making them illegal in STS correct?

Sebastian R.

10-29-2009, 10:36 AM

So far, Toyos have won at Nationals in ST twice in a row, they were also the fastest street tire *period* (faster than STS, STX, and STU!) at Nationals this year.
That said, they do not last long, and once they drop off, they really hit the wall. The Stones wear like iron and are very competitive, not many have tried the RS-3 yet (legal...min is 140 treadwear), but they were second fastest one day in ST, and others in STX and STS have used them to success, it is said the the RS-3 likes a very aggressive shave.

DelSolBurrow

10-29-2009, 10:48 AM

thanks for the info seb, any idea on the life of the RS-3?

Steve35

10-29-2009, 10:50 AM

On your car the Toyo's are the best choice if you want to win. No, they will not wear as well as the XS you have now.
The RS-3's while maybe as quick or quicker than the XS's, the jury is out on the wear over a year of autocrossing. My guess is its between the XS and R1R's but don't hold me to it.:)

Steve

DelSolBurrow

10-29-2009, 11:02 AM

Ya i guess I would have to be willing to try the RS-3 and just see how it goes. The XS don't come in a 225 for 15's but the RS-3 do. What is everyones take about mounting 225 on 7in rim? Would a 205/50 perform better than a 225/45 on a 7in rim?

Dov

10-29-2009, 11:07 AM

kumhos don't tend to go off. I seem to recall you having plenty of tread left on yours. So there is no point in buying new kumhos. What you might consider doing is trying to find another set of wider wheels (which is recommended if your switching to a 225/45). Do that, and keep your 6.5's with the kumhos on them. That way if the toyo's/kooks go off on you toward the end of next season you have a set of perfectly good kumho to finish the season with in case money get's tight. You then can also use the kumhos for random non-champoinship events/ schools etc.

I was thinking of going with the kook's simply because they like heat so you don't have to baby sit them with a sprayer all season. It's hot here. If there is a tire that likes heat and is on par with a tire that doesn't like heat then the choice seems clear to me. Yes kook's didn't win nationals but they were up there and no-one had much testing time on them. So they likely have more potential then nationals results may have indicated (this is of course just my opinion).

DelSolBurrow

10-29-2009, 11:14 AM

well the Orange wheels with the XS that you saw are becoming my daily driven set of rims and tires and I m buying some new 15X7 rims, which is why I will need new tires. I guess I could go the other way and buy an all season and switch the XS from the Orange rims to my new ones, and then buy a new auto X set once they really go off into next season. I'll have to think about it, but I kinda like to start each yr with a new set of tires, mental thing I guess.

merlotmx5

10-29-2009, 11:23 AM

Just because a tire has tread left does not mean it still has ultimate grip...enough to stay competitive.

Toyos are good but as with any other tire, they have drawbacks. You just have to decide what you want to deal with. Toyos need to be driven differently, and as many of us have seen, besides them wearing far too quickly, they do not like heat. They don't get crazy greasy like the Azeni did, but you just don't seem to see improvements in time, often seeing your first run as the fastest. If you plan to have two drivers in the warmer months, I think there are better options out there.

I think the Kumho has been a great tire for you. If you are looking to try something new, the RE-11 or the RS-3 are strong well rounded options, IMHO.

Have you considered a 7.5 inch wheel?

nalbar

10-29-2009, 11:40 AM

they were also the fastest street tire *period* (faster than STS, STX, and STU!) at Nationals this year.

This is more of a symptom of a mis-classed car than anything else.

nalbar

gkd

10-29-2009, 11:46 AM

I m buying some new 15X7 rims

Why are you buying 7"(only) wide wheels? if you are buying dedicated autocross wheels for ST, you must get 7.5". Brian G. and Steve C. can find you very affordable options. Discussing what is the best ST tire and not using the widest legal wheel is very confusing to me.

George

DelSolBurrow

10-29-2009, 12:09 PM

Just because a tire has tread left does not mean it still has ultimate grip...enough to stay competitive.

Have you considered a 7.5 inch wheel?

Ya I am aware that Heat cycles determine the life/ grip of a tire which is why I know these are on there way out even though like dov said they still looked like I had tons of life left.

Why are you buying 7"(only) wide wheels? if you are buying dedicated autocross wheels for ST, you must get 7.5". Brian G. and Steve C. can find you very affordable options. Discussing what is the best ST tire and not using the widest legal wheel is very confusing to me.

George

Ya I have been on the fence with the 7-7.5 rims widths. I m just worried about clearance. I have no idea what offset would work with the 7.5 and I also don't want to deal with buying spacers because my wallet can't afford it.

Konig retracks or rota slip streams were the only 2 options I think I found in my price range in 15X7.5

itrbruce

10-29-2009, 01:23 PM

It sounds like with your dollar conscious budget, forget about the Toyos. If you got the XS's to last a year, that may be hard to match - you are either gonna have to roll the dice or possibly trust some info you might find or play it safe with the XSs.

The 225's will certainly fit on the 7 inch rims, back when Carl and I competed on race tires, he always went with 205s and I went with either a 225/205 setup or on occasion all 225s and this was on 6" rims. You get more traction, but the car is definitely sloppier in transition which takes some learning time to deal with (for us mortals).

But George is right (of course) 7.5 will only help your performance if they will fit. So it is worth your time trying to figure out if they will. You can try to use THIS (http://www.rims-n-tires.com/rt_specs.jsp) to help with figuring out rubbing/fitting issues by including what others say they have gotten to work (i.e. people using 7's, 6.5's and 6's but with different offsets) although cars are not made identically, so your mileage may vary.

Good luck,
Bruce

DelSolBurrow

10-29-2009, 01:31 PM

Oh sweet, thanks Bruce. I also just found a dedicated thread on Honda-tech for you honda guys just about the konig retrack so I'm trying to get some info from them.

Dov

10-29-2009, 02:05 PM

Ya I am aware that Heat cycles determine the life/ grip of a tire which is why I know these are on there way out even though like dov said they still looked like I had tons of life left.

Ya I have been on the fence with the 7-7.5 rims widths. I m just worried about clearance. I have no idea what offset would work with the 7.5 and I also don't want to deal with buying spacers because my wallet can't afford it.

Konig retracks or rota slip streams were the only 2 options I think I found in my price range in 15X7.5

There is a new 949racing 6UL 15x7.5 in development that will, according to them the people at 949, be out in 'spring' They will likely be in 10lb range and be sub 200$ each (the 15x8 currently out is $159 for comparison). Those may be worth waiting for. I don't know if they will be the right offset for you though. They may be worth waiting for.

I saw a set of retracks on craigslist about a month ago for 400$ (if memory serves me correctly). Too bad I didn't know were you were looking. I'm not planning on down grading to 15x7's so I didn't grab them.

There are affordable wheels out there.... be patient, look hard and do your research. (I might have a used set of 6UL's to sell you when the new ones come out, depends on what I decide to do).

73STS

10-29-2009, 02:27 PM

This is more of a symptom of a mis-classed car than anything else.

nalbar

Perhaps you would like to enlighten us on this comment o wise one.

chapmanr

10-29-2009, 03:58 PM

For sheer speed, Toyos are the way to go.

But, for long wear, you can't beat the Kumhos. I've had the same 4 on the car all year for local events and they are still competitive. The Mini is really hard on tires, so I think that says a lot.

oinojo

10-29-2009, 04:00 PM

R1R's won't last a full season unless you do ONLY champ runs (no X or practices). And you should flip them after the first 15-20 runs if they are not shaved. They wear strange.

Jon L says they wear strange because of my driving style. Jon is full of $hit. I have seen at least 5 different cars with the same wear pattern. I really like them, but I won't buy them again.

nalbar

oh the love im getting from Warren. :rock2:

Ask any Toyo driver and wear is the least of their worries as they heat cycle before the tread is gone. Even shaved...

Budget wise i can't see anything other than the Kumhos for you John. The RS3 is a great tire and last just as long as my Bridgestones. If i were in the same position, i would order another set of Kumhos...

call me up
760-716-2927

-W-

10-29-2009, 06:16 PM

Konig retracks or rota slip streams were the only 2 options I think I found in my price range in 15X7.5

The TR Motorsports C1 from Tirerack are also a low cost 15x7.5 option.

BTW, you're doing quite well on the Kumhos, why change?

DelSolBurrow

10-29-2009, 11:00 PM

You are all right, the toyo's are just not in my budget even though it would be nice to have them.

Oh ya, I forgot about the C1's from tire rack. Thanks Walter, I do feel like I have been doing well on the Kumho, so thats why I m so torn on what to do. Like you were saying, why change things if it is working. My reasoning: To try and find some gains since I need to buy a new track set of rims. Will I noticed anything from switching to 15X7 from my current 15X6.5 using the XS?

wish the Kumho came in a 225 that I could use on a 7in rim, but that won't be happening...

so what do you guys think?...

Get 15X7 rims and then I can choose to squeeze a 225 on them or stick with what I know in the 205 XS.
or
Go all new with trying to fit a 15X7.5 with 225 RS-3's maxing my car completely in STS since tire width is the only area where I have room to improve.
baaaah, decisions ,decisions.

SD MR2

10-30-2009, 01:05 AM

Sounds a lot like my dilemma for next season. Of course, one option for me is to go with two of each (XS in front and RS-3 in back) - what with my staggered tire sizes and affinity for mis-matched tires! I can already see Steve shaking his head in disdain :nono:

-Andy

merlotmx5

10-30-2009, 08:00 AM

Regardless of what tire you end up choosing to go with, there is no question you should take full advantage of the 15X7.5 wheel allowance. Even if you stay with the XS the 15X7.5 will be a faster combination.

Yes, I will have to find a way to drive even faster; I will be worried. :eek::)

John, maybe post a WTB: on here, solo2, and other applicable forums for some 15X7.5s. You never know what may turn up.

Good Luck!

zo7vette

10-30-2009, 09:18 AM

You have been making steady improvements in your driving, keep working on the nut behind the wheel. Go with another set of Kumho's, go for one more set, then make the switch. The Kumho is a great ST tire, they suck cold, but are awesome hot.

As far as the wheels, definitely, buy the 7.5", if you can find an affordable set.

Jeff Cawthorne

DelSolBurrow

10-30-2009, 03:54 PM

Steve35

10-30-2009, 04:01 PM

Dov

10-30-2009, 06:09 PM

Thank you all for the input and advice!

JW, would anyone who is currently running some 15X7.5 be willing to let me try mounting one up at an upcoming event, so that I can get an idea of fitment issues?

As long as your the one doing all the work. I have no problems with that. We can even trade wheels and tires for the day if you want to see if it rubs under load.... Although a warning: Mr. Coe is supposedly coe-driving my car next event so I'm not responsible for any flat spots ect that may/will happen.

merlotmx5

10-31-2009, 07:20 AM

Just out of curiosity. Why would he flat spot tires on a car he set up and knows how to drive?

Steve35

10-31-2009, 09:06 AM

:popcorn:

Dov

10-31-2009, 10:36 AM

Just out of curiosity. Why would he flat spot tires on a car he set up and knows how to drive?

Kumho's lock up surprisingly easily, Steve has never raced on them before and he drives very aggressively. Also, I made some (hopefully minor) changes to the cars handling. So there is no guarantee that it is still 'well set up'.

Does that answer your question sufficiently?

oinojo

10-31-2009, 11:41 AM

:popcorn:

Steve35

10-31-2009, 12:02 PM

Steve has never raced on them before and he drives very aggressively

wrong and true :)

looking foward to it:banana:

merlotmx5

10-31-2009, 02:10 PM

Does that answer your question sufficiently?

If sufficient = inaccurate, I suppose so.

Dov

10-31-2009, 05:58 PM

If sufficient = inaccurate, I suppose so.

You seem to be having a bad day..... Do you need a hug? I can provide those. I know it is not officially free hug day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Hugs_Campaign) till July but I'm willing to make an exception.

Hey you guys want to share some of that popcorn. I'm getting hungry over here.

merlotmx5

11-01-2009, 07:45 PM

Noticing your lack of accuracy indicates one having a bad day?

Maybe you and Steve can exchange hugs next Sunday as you parade around in your shiny new red car.

http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/attachments/f18/30484d1232689603-call-me-gay-mazda-miata.jpg

Cullen

11-02-2009, 01:14 AM

:popcorn:

Dov

11-02-2009, 07:05 AM

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

Cullen

11-02-2009, 09:00 AM

LOL. Jeez, I wish that was my scenario...

I work until 11:30 too Dov!

Now... to get back on topic, Johnny boy, just go around driving like you don't give a freaking care about hitting the cones (I don't), and you'll get closer to them, reducing the need for proper tire selection.

marco

11-02-2009, 01:45 PM

:popcorn:

[this must be what happens when auto-xers talk about tires...] :rotflmao:

oinojo

11-02-2009, 03:33 PM

i love new rubber :shift:

I'm debating on what to try for next year. I still have a set from BS, locally i want to try something else. Its looking like Yoko Advan AD08s or possibly fitting the 225 Kooks. 195 Toyos are cheap at $95 each... :D

DelSolBurrow

11-03-2009, 10:17 AM

oinojo

11-03-2009, 10:36 AM

It appears that the biggest problem with running 7.5 on my chassis is in the rear cause I have seen some people saying that they run 7.5 in front and 7 in the rear with 205's. Interesting Idea, but I think I would like to keep all 4 corners the same width for tire rotation purposes. I'll get to see what the clearance is like soon since Dov said he was cool with my trying to mount up a +34 7.5 that he has. Thanks Dov!

+34 will not fit. Pretty sure of it. I run a +35 15x7 with more camber than you do and it barely fits.

I'm pretty sure a 38-43 offset 15 x 7.5 will be better suited if your looking to go that route. Rota Slipstreams come to mind...same with the TRmotorsports wheel.

DelSolBurrow

11-03-2009, 10:49 AM

+34 will not fit. Pretty sure of it. I run a +35 15x7 with more camber than you do and it barely fits.

I'm pretty sure a 38-43 offset 15 x 7.5 will be better suited if your looking to go that route. Rota Slipstreams come to mind...same with the TRmotorsports wheel.

I m just going to give it a try so I can at least take a look and take some measurements. I have seen a lot of comments about needing spacers to clear the upper tie rod in the rear with 7.5 with +40-43 so ya upper 30's may be the where I need to be. 36-38 I'll just just have to see.

nalbar

11-03-2009, 11:26 AM

Let me know if you want to borrow some spacers. I will bring them to Sunday's event.

nalbar

itrbruce

11-03-2009, 04:16 PM

+34 will not fit. Pretty sure of it. I run a +35 15x7 with more camber than you do and it barely fits.

I'm pretty sure a 38-43 offset 15 x 7.5 will be better suited if your looking to go that route. Rota Slipstreams come to mind...same with the TRmotorsports wheel.

Does anybody know for sure how much commonality/difference there is between the Del Slo and the Civic? I might not guess they are the same.

DelSolBurrow

11-03-2009, 10:47 PM

an EG civic (92-95) Is almost 100% the same, but my wheel base is a little shorter. they share the exact same suspension components front and rear and the fender wells are identical. The fenders are shaped a little different but I think they still fall in the same dimensions in the wheel well its self. an EK (96-99) civic has slightly different components and I m not sure about the fenders or wheel wells. That my understanding of it anyway. The integra also has very similar suspension and wheel wells to my car.

kraigklip

11-05-2009, 11:41 AM

I think the Kooks are a great tire. They wear great, and last long. One set of kooks which already had 150+ runs where driven to Nationals. Then they were on a trophied ST Civic, then ran on a STS Miata.

I drove out to Nationals on Schooner's set and they still have grip. To this day, Schooner's set has over 200 runs.

My set, was Brand New shaved to 3/32 for Nationals. Currently, they have over about 200 runs and still fast. One tire has corded but it keeps it's grip.

I'm going to try the 225 Toyo for next year, Schooner has a set of SSR's and Kooks, so we are going to try some back to back testing between the kooks and Toyo.

Now if we can just get Hankook to throw us some prize money, I would stay on kooks.

mpheinitz

11-05-2009, 12:00 PM

Trophy>Contingency

I'm eyeing the Hankooks for next year.

oinojo

11-05-2009, 12:06 PM

Trophy>Contingency

I'm eyeing the Hankooks for next year.

im thinking the same way. Ive lost plenty of times on Contingency tires already... Still debating on AD08s or the Kooks. I heard they are very similar other than the advans are the lightest 205 and the kooks are the heaviest tire in ST

73STS

11-05-2009, 01:18 PM

Trophy>Contingency

I'm eyeing the Hankooks for next year.

But trophy + contingency trumps all. :D

dwkfym

11-05-2009, 08:43 PM

Can't have
Trophy>Contingency
and
Trophy + Contingency both at once, generally speaking. ;) ;)

Unless if you mean by trophy you mean not being first place :)

The guys at the road race club in Gainesville love the XSs. Longevity is very important since the track events here see a loooot of seat time..