Sound Ideas

[fd_racer]

This post comes from the SCNAX forum...
There are people trying to change our sounds rules here is what they want.

NEW:

6.4.4
On the first violation the driver will be required to immediately make an attempt to bring the vehicle in compliance. Physical changes to the vehicle which result in a drop in the noise output of the vehicle are the only accepted means of compliance.

6.4.4a
Once a physical change has been made to the vehicle and the resulting run meets the sound requirement. The resulting change to the vehicle will stay in place for a period of 12 MONTHS from the change. The removal of approved changes, without a prior written letter of approval by the Solo II Chairperson, will result in the vehicle not being allowed to run at any San Diego Region sponsored events, for a period of 12 months. This will include National Tours, National Pro Solo, as well as local Championships or practices.


I have gone over the sound limit several times but I have always been ready to make a change when I go over (from turning boost down to making crazy looking exhaust systems, and turns like my resent creation). I want to get the car quiet enough for the SD events (the only events that are monitored) and at the same time I would like the car to be cometitive and make as much power as possable).

For those of you that don't know I can't run an exhaust under my car because it is 3.5 inches off the ground. I can't run and exhaust in the transmission tunnel because I have a road race gear box that has low ground clearence so the gears are on the side (it is 15 inches wide). And I am not going to put the muffler in the car with me (exhaust temps on turbo rotarys run over 1100 degrees), I had the muffler in the car before and it would get up to 160 degrees inside, not fun or safe (I built covers and insulated it and vented it I was just too hot). With my wife driving the car now I want to make her comfortable, would you want your wife in a hot car burning up, OK wait some of you might bad question....So my only option is to run it how I have it now, from the turbo it goes our 3" pipe to a Burns stainless 15 inch long muffler, then turns 45 degrees and goes into a 15 inch long Camco muffler and that is it no more room comes right out of the car. I made the crack pipe looking muffler set up that turns up (so it is not stick out and hitting cones) goes to another muffler turns again and goes to a reducer muffler it necks it down to a 1.75 inch exit, I am loosing about 60 horsepower to the wheels.

And just so all of you know I do not have 600 hp I made 370 to the wheels with my 49mm inlet restrictor and now am making 310 with the crack pipe exhaust. The BP corvettes I run against are making 550-600 HP to the wheels, so I need all the power I can get. Even a stock Z06 puts down more to the wheels than my car.

All I want is to be treated with the same respect and dencency I treat everone else with. Sure if you treat me bad and jump on me I fight back but only with reason.

I am sure the right desision will be made at the meeting. Hopefully people will not start taking sides or making desisions based on personal feelings. Remember I am not the only one driving this car, you will also be not allowing my wife to run (that is not fair to her).

Another option we could try is, ask the Q for a new contract with higher sound limits maybe 97 db. Just to let some of you know, when you rent the stadium for driving events there is no DB limit mentioned anywhere. Our contract does have a DB limit but the contract is over 10 years old. No other club running down at the Q has a DB limit. Now with the drifting events (super loud on rev limit the whole time and backfiring even running when we run, not shure how a complaint from a neighbor in the area could be determined if it was us or them). Also there will be kart events there now and we all now how loud karts can be (I had one I know). Not to mention the drag race events held till 2:00am (yes that is 2 in the morning when people are tying to sleep). I borrowed the DB meter from work and went to one of the drag events measured off 50 feet and I got several cars over 100 and a handfull hitting 105-110 db.... I the middle of the night.

If you look hear you can see what DB street cars are allowed to be in California
http://www.pointhappy.com/cvcars/calregs.htm
It allows 95 DB (A setting on the meter) at 20 inches from the exit of the exhaust with the car in neutral at 3000 rpm if we did this in tech on the street prep, st, prep and mod cars or any questionable cars we would never have anyone go out and be too loud and risk loosing the stadium. Also no one can say the meter is in a bad place, or he is lifting past the meter. That way all cars conform before they run. Not to mention we do not need to have anyone working the DB meter (that is always a big safty concern)..

My opinion is no one should have that much control over any car/driver.

There are many of you that helped me out this past weekend and came to my defense (I will not name anyone, the pot does not need to be stired anymore) but I can tell you I can't thank all of you enough. It suprised me at how many supporters I have out there.

Thanks for the support

Jeff Kiesel

[froggy47]

It seems to me that Jeff has a point.

In the absence of any recent (years?) neighbor complaints

and

since we seem to be the only club or only event (Stones concert - VooDoo Lounge tour was pretty loud - I was there) that meets any event noise guidelines

and

since we don't start early or run late

are we not being a little anal/overboard about the sound meter stuff?

If we have a rule it's a rule for everybody, lets not customize a rule to put a particular car or class of car out of business. The next "customized" rule that a club comes up with may put YOUR car on the trailer & before you know it there will be only a couple of dozen hybrid cars allowed to run (no offense to hybrid guys :) )

There is an old saying "Be careful what you wish for" some things have unintended consequences.

PS Great event SDR

:D

[fd_racer]

One thing I left out of my earlier post was... I our contract it says the sound leaving the stadium can not exceed 88 DB before 12:00 and 93 DB after 12:00. So not sure where the 93 DB at 50 feet came from?????
88 DB outside of the stadium would be more like 100 DB plus at 50 feet.

Thanks Bob, I think you nailed it right on the head......

PS did any of you notice the lack of PREP/MOD cars (not from the SD region)??? I know most of them in California, they did not want to come and deal with the sound or the drama at the Q. It is very unfortunate because there are alot of cool/fast cars that are fun to watch (but they are a threat to top time of day, just like the karts and my car!!!)


Jeff

[magicman]

Hi Jeff,
You have a point or two.


This post comes from the SCNAX forum...
There are people trying to change our sounds rules here is what they want.

NEW:

6.4.4
On the first violation the driver will be required to immediately make an attempt to bring the vehicle in compliance. Physical changes to the vehicle which result in a drop in the noise output of the vehicle are the only accepted means of compliance.

This is what I've allways been told. Doesn't seem new. :confused:
As I understand and as it was explained at the Tour, you have 2 chances now at to bring it in compliance unless you exceed 99db (wwaaayyy over and considered a snub at the rules). Is that right?



6.4.4a
Once a physical change has been made to the vehicle and the resulting run meets the sound requirement. The resulting change to the vehicle will stay in place for a period of 12 MONTHS from the change. The removal of approved changes, without a prior written letter of approval by the Solo II Chairperson, will result in the vehicle not being allowed to run at any San Diego Region sponsored events, for a period of 12 months. This will include National Tours, National Pro Solo, as well as local Championships or practices.


Seems wierd. First change at the track can bring you in compliance but not be the best overall solution. For one thing, prior written consent for a change won't even let you make it quieter :cool: between runs.

All this assumes the competetor is, in the spirit of the rule, trying his or her best to keep their car within the limit everyone else is living with.
What do you suggest for the cars that seem to be cronicly over the limit and whose owners don't seem to want to play by the same rules as everyone else?





For those of you that don't know I can't run an exhaust under my car because it is 3.5 inches off the ground. I can't run and exhaust in the transmission tunnel because I have a road race gear box that has low ground clearence so the gears are on the side (it is 15 inches wide). And I am not going to put the muffler in the car with me (exhaust temps on turbo rotarys run over 1100 degrees), I had the muffler in the car before and it would get up to 160 degrees inside, not fun or safe (I built covers and insulated it and vented it I was just too hot). With my wife driving the car now I want to make her comfortable, would you want your wife in a hot car burning up, OK wait some of you might bad question....So my only option is to run it how I have it now, from the turbo it goes our 3" pipe to a Burns stainless 15 inch long muffler, then turns 45 degrees and goes into a 15 inch long Camco muffler and that is it no more room comes right out of the car. I made the crack pipe looking muffler set up that turns up (so it is not stick out and hitting cones) goes to another muffler turns again and goes to a reducer muffler it necks it down to a 1.75 inch exit, I am loosing about 60 horsepower to the wheels.

And just so all of you know I do not have 600 hp I made 370 to the wheels with my 49mm inlet restrictor and now am making 310 with the crack pipe exhaust. The BP corvettes I run against are making 550-600 HP to the wheels, so I need all the power I can get. Even a stock Z06 puts down more to the wheels than my car.

Relevance? Everyone has the same rules to deal with and problems specific to their car. I probably wouldn't have used the stock corvettes as an example.They all seem to be quiet enough.........;)



All I want is to be treated with the same respect and dencency I treat everone else with.

Everyone has the same rules.:confused:



I am sure the right desision will be made at the meeting. Hopefully people will not start taking sides or making desisions based on personal feelings. Remember I am not the only one driving this car, you will also be not allowing my wife to run (that is not fair to her).

With all due respect to your charming and beautiful wife, this be about the cars.:)



Another option we could try is, ask the Q for a new contract with higher sound limits maybe 97 db. Just to let some of you know, when you rent the stadium for driving events there is no DB limit mentioned anywhere. Our contract does have a DB limit but the contract is over 10 years old. No other club running down at the Q has a DB limit. Now with the drifting events (super loud on rev limit the whole time and backfiring even running when we run, not shure how a complaint from a neighbor in the area could be determined if it was us or them). Also there will be kart events there now and we all now how loud karts can be (I had one I know). Not to mention the drag race events held till 2:00am (yes that is 2 in the morning when people are tying to sleep). I borrowed the DB meter from work and went to one of the drag events measured off 50 feet and I got several cars over 100 and a handfull hitting 105-110 db.... I the middle of the night.

Agreed things are not what they should be and I for one would like to see a change. After all I drive one of the SD mod cars you seem to dismiss so easily in your later post.



If you look hear you can see what DB street cars are allowed to be in California
http://www.pointhappy.com/cvcars/calregs.htm
It allows 95 DB (A setting on the meter) at 20 inches from the exit of the exhaust with the car in neutral at 3000 rpm if we did this in tech on the street prep, st, prep and mod cars or any questionable cars we would never have anyone go out and be too loud and risk loosing the stadium. Also no one can say the meter is in a bad place, or he is lifting past the meter. That way all cars conform before they run. Not to mention we do not need to have anyone working the DB meter (that is always a big safty concern)..


:D Good Gig if you could get it! A racecar at 3000 rpm?:p
There's obviosly a difference between the sound range of a muffled street car and a full blown racecar say at 3000 and at 6500 rpm.



My opinion is no one should have that much control over any car/driver.


Someone needs to enforce what rules we have. Rules can be changed however.

This being said, I drive a low horsepower mod car that I would love to run with open pipes for the extra boost.

I also keep my car within limits and no one has to tell me to do so.:cool:



Terry

[JamesWilson]

I would have loved to give my Tour report last night at the Board meeting on Sound and some issues that came up over the weekend, but something came up very late in the afternoon that needed immediate attention (yes, even MORE important than autocrossing!!):D

I will try to have something this week. All in all everyone made their best efforts to conform to our Regional supplementals this weekend and we had zero sound-related issues. Our 93db limit was in place and strictly enforced, and while a couple competitors went over on a run or two and recieved DNF's for the offending run, but the vehicles were graciously modified and quieted. Some felt there were problems, but again you should always re-read your supps, and come to the Sound Guy with questions first.

James
Sound Chair

[Bimota Guy]

James, We had a good discussion about sound at the e-board meeting. We need to discuss. I'll try to call you tomorrow at work.

[Bimota Guy]

:D Good Gig if you could get it! A racecar at 3000 rpm?:p
There's obviosly a difference between the sound range of a muffled street car and a full blown racecar say at 3000 and at 6500 rpm.

From the link Jeff posted (not a government site):

The exhaust noise provisions in 1036(d)(1) establish a limit of 95 dB(A) measured 20 inches from the exhaust pipe outlet with the engine operating in neutral, at a specified speed typically between 3000 and 5000 rpm (see regulations for details). [Q9]. Exhaust system modifications are permitted to increase noise above the level of original factory installed systems as long as the 95-decibel limit is not exceeded. [Q10].

Not only gives a range but reads "typically."

[JamesWilson]

Steve-

Please email me with your meeting overview, I had already spoken with Randy today. Be concise and factual, I do not accept rumor, personal vendettas, bribery, but flattery is always accepted. We have been very busy with work, and a case of fraud that has been taking up most of our time (someone has printed their own checks with THEIR name and OUR checking account, to the tune of nearly $10K). Understandably, I have been very busy with this, and takes a certain immediancy over extra-curricular activities :-)

Please stay tuned with my report but understand this is a very busy week. I know and hear the sense of urgency in everyone's posts, calls, and emails, but please avoid shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre.

-JW

[magicman]

Good point Steve.