SCNAX December 03, 2005 Flyer online [Archive] - San Diego Region SCCA Forums

frosty

11-28-2005, 02:37 PM

I'm bringing a small group of people who are new to autox on Saturday, and some of them are in the 9 am run group. Is it fairly easy to allow them to run in the 2nd group (so they can get an instructor)?

P.S. They know they need to work, not just run.

cshodges

11-28-2005, 03:41 PM

You cannot run outside of the group where your class runs, period.

However, that's not to say you can't find an alternate class to legally run in. For example, I run in DS, but my car is legal in ESP with my R-comp tires, or STX or IS1 if I use regular street tires, which means if I didn't care which class I ran in, I could run in 4, 5, or 6.

Anything street-legal can run in our catch-all SU class. SU runs in the 4th group, right after lunch. That's the easiest way to get a Novice to run later and find an instructor. The downside is that if too many novices pile into the 4th group, there might not be enough instructors to cover them all. Also, they won't be able to look at the results and see how they fared in their own class without a grain of salt (for varying track conditions) and a little math.

frosty

11-28-2005, 03:56 PM

One is in ES (Porsche 944 8v) and the other is in HS (Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart; non-turbo). Since I'll be running DS (5th run group), then it wouldn't be bad if they ran in the 4th group.

If I understand the rules right, the Lancer can run in STS, STX, or STU and both can run in STS2 (which is in run group 2). Am I correct?

woodrufj

11-28-2005, 04:00 PM

both can run in STS2 (which is in run group 2). Am I correct?STS2 is for 2 seater only.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

frosty

11-28-2005, 04:16 PM

STS2 is for 2 seater only.

Makes sense. The place I saw it wasn't very clear.

If none of us are running in the morning, what's a good time to arrive by? (Neither of them had numbers)

nalbar

11-28-2005, 04:30 PM

the lancer could also run in SM and SU, and at least one of the prepared classes. its legal to run in any class with MORE mods than your car has.

its great that your group is thinking about this in advance. to acknowledge an instructor is more important that running the minimum class your car qualifies for shows...well...shows class.

certainly if you mention this to one of the fine people putting on the event allowances will be made.

you certainly will be running with the 'N' (for novice) on your car that allows you to use an instructor. if so, i doubt anybody will complain if allowances are made. if someone complains, tell them to complain about it to me.

its ALWAYS 'best' to arrive early. ALWAYS. if a novice tries to cut it to close they may miss the novice walk. more times you walk the course the better.

nalbar

frosty

11-28-2005, 04:37 PM

its great that your group is thinking about this in advance. to acknowledge an instructor is more important that running the minimum class your car qualifies for shows...well...shows class.

Well, I've been taking the initiative in the group. I went to the last event, raced in the first group and lucked out to get an instructor for the 2nd and 3rd runs.

But yeah, there's a point where skill is the limiting factor and an instructor makes a huge difference.

serautoxer

11-28-2005, 10:06 PM

If nobody cares, I will be available to instruct in the first group.

I've been sucking at my own driving lately so running for points is not really all that important. I don't think anyone in Pax will care all that much if I instruct earlier in the day. If they do, then I'll just DSQ myself from the results.

Matthew

serautoxer

11-28-2005, 10:10 PM

cshodges

11-29-2005, 08:31 AM

Kick out a person's first run? Are we even allowed to do that at a championship event? We'll definately get some flak if anybody loses a run.

frosty

11-29-2005, 09:35 AM

woodrufj

11-29-2005, 10:14 AM

STS2 is for 2 seater only.
Makes sense. The place I saw it wasn't very clear.
No it doesn't make sense. Its the only class that is "2 seats only". Other classes that are intended to be for 2 seaters allow 4 seaters in. The "2 seat only" anomaly tells me that the Miatas and CRXs that are top dog in STS2 are afraid of the screaming STS Civics.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

Andrew

11-29-2005, 10:33 AM

In the spirit of jumping classes to fit one's schedule, I'll either be running BSP (instead of AS. On my street tires. Should be interesting.) or not at all, depending on if I can wake up in time to register in the morning, go do my normal Saturday thing, and come back in time.

Oh, and find my helmet. I know it's around here somewhere...

car583

11-29-2005, 11:53 AM

Matt, I understand that you want to keep things running smoothly, but the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 6th run groups will have just completed working. Depending on when they get relieved they will have to run back to their cars to get them ready and into grid, they may not make it due to no fault of their own. I'm running in the 1st group and have been forewarned and will get my car in grid early!!!

frosty

11-29-2005, 11:57 AM

There's always making a big point about it, then cutting slack when slack should be cut.

nino

11-29-2005, 01:15 PM

Its the only class that is "2 seats only".Isn't there an SM2 class? Besides, no one is going to care about those pesky civics when a fully prepped integra shows up next year. :p
-nino

woodrufj

11-29-2005, 01:26 PM

Isn't there an SM2 class? Yes, and they allow 4seaters. They ain't afraid of no Civic or M3.

Jay W
505/287 Daktoa

j_rho

11-29-2005, 02:45 PM

Besides, no one is going to care about those pesky civics when a fully prepped integra shows up next year. :p
-ninoHey Nino,
How is that Integra coming along? Haven't seen it out at the last couple events. Is Bret going to share any of his setup tricks with you so you can have a fully prepped car too?

The San Diego Tour is looming, 4 short months away...

nino

11-29-2005, 03:33 PM

Hi Jason,
I haven't seen Bret's Integra since he first got it. I've been meaning to go check it out, but our schedules haven't alligned as of yet. No STS car for me for a long time. The RS is back with Eli and the GSR isn't legal any more(I pulled the ABS a long time ago and recently installed a light weight flywheel and race clutch). I'll probably come to a couple of events here and there to have some fun, but my days of competitive autoxing are over(at least for now).
What's up with your car? I thought you were prepping it for STS. I talked to someone recently and they said you were running STX at the last event. What's the scoop?
-nino

nino

11-29-2005, 03:35 PM

Yes, and they allow 4seaters. They ain't afraid of no Civic or M3.

Jay W
505/287 DaktoaOh, I always thought SM2 was to SM as STS2 is to STS. ;) What is SM2 then? :confused:

j_rho

11-29-2005, 03:47 PM

Over-displacement SM vehicles can run in SM2, as can not-over-displacement SM vehicles, at their peril.

I ran STS PAX at the last event, will be running again there this weekend. Still have a long ways to go dialing things in, but it's been promising thus far.

Sorry to hear you won't be coming out! Seems like you had just gotten to the point where you were a serious threat. And who knows, the extra oomph of a GSR might be handy at a Pro Solo...

nino

11-29-2005, 04:31 PM

Cool, so SM2 is more like STX is to STS.
Great, I'm glad to hear that you're in STS afterall. How did you do compared to the rest of the field at the last event?
Yeah, it was fun while it lasted. I just don't have the resources to do it right now. Plus, with the 240 coming next season, I'd like to think that I jumped ship at just the right moment. I'm just looking forward to seeing a non-Civic on the podium for a change.
-nino

j_rho

11-29-2005, 04:59 PM

The San Diego event didn't go so well, but the LA event last weekend was much better, about half a tenth off Will. Car still has a lot of untapped potential...

nino

11-29-2005, 05:32 PM

What was Will driving?

nino

11-29-2005, 05:38 PM

Nevermind, I just looked up the results. Good job. You going to make it out this weekend?

j_rho

11-29-2005, 09:22 PM

Will was driving the same white Civic he ran at Nationals...

I'll be there Saturday for sure! :)

WAM

11-30-2005, 04:21 PM

Just a heads up for everyone on here. I intend to be a Hard A$$ at Saturday's event making sure things are running smoothly so that everyone can recieve 4 Timed Runs! Part of what I plan to do is Close Grid when the first car in each heat is at the start line. If you are not in Grid prior to the First car in the Heat Starting you will lose your first Run.

Matthew (being a Hard A$$)

Gotta chuckle when I see someone propose hard inflexible rules. Many have tried, many have failed. Oh you might start out strong but you'll be done in by the end (or shot). -- Bill

frosty

11-30-2005, 04:27 PM

Gotta chuckle when I see someone propose hard inflexible rules. Many have tried, many have failed. Oh you might start out strong but you'll be done in by the end (or shot). -- Bill

Even if it just means that the tardy still get their 3 runs and the prompt get a "bonus" run?

D Rex

11-30-2005, 06:09 PM

If you are not in Grid prior to the First car in the Heat Starting you will lose your first Run.

2nd 3rd 5th & 6th groups are work/run back to back. Even with changing on the fly it's a long walk back to pits. Are you going to provide shuttle service or at least a pre pregrid to those cars. Thats a lot of cones to pick up at the end of the day?

Mazda_Gremlyn

12-01-2005, 12:00 AM

2nd 3rd 5th & 6th groups are work/run back to back. Even with changing on the fly it's a long walk back to pits. Are you going to provide shuttle service or at least a pre pregrid to those cars. Thats a lot of cones to pick up at the end of the day?

Obviously we can't start the run group immeadiately after the preceding one finishes, so there would be a little grace period. Ten minutes wouldn't be enough time to get back to your car and get in grid? I think 10 minutes for everyone to get in and to their cars and on to grid would save us from have those few cars at the end of a run that came late and have to finish all their runs at once.

frosty

12-01-2005, 10:09 AM

Obviously we can't start the run group immeadiately after the preceding one finishes, so there would be a little grace period. Ten minutes wouldn't be enough time to get back to your car and get in grid? I think 10 minutes for everyone to get in and to their cars and on to grid would save us from have those few cars at the end of a run that came late and have to finish all their runs at once.

A grace period (after the first car in the run group goes) would be good... that way people can get back and over and yet the course is still being used.

car583

12-01-2005, 10:15 AM

... I think 10 minutes for everyone to get in and to their cars and on to grid would save us from have those few cars at the end of a run that came late and have to finish all their runs at once.

At the last several events we have had smaller turnouts, leading to small run groups, and it's almost always the 2 driver cars that are finishing their runs back to back (with time for driver changes and car cool down), not the cars that come late to grid. Now if the 2 driver cars are late to grid ...

nalbar

12-01-2005, 04:15 PM

and it's almost always the 2 driver cars that are finishing their runs back to back (with time for driver changes and car cool down), not the cars that come late to grid. Now if the 2 driver cars are late to grid ...

you are ABSOLUTELY correct!

but some sort of myth seems to have developed that it is otherwise.

nalbar

frosty

12-01-2005, 04:22 PM

but some sort of myth seems to have developed that it is otherwise.

At the (only) event I went to, there were a lot of two-driver cars during my work group (2nd run group). There were many single-driver cars who didn't start runs until after the two-driver cars had already finished their first 3 or 4 runs.

Now, if there is always someone ready to go at the starting line, then it shouldn't make a difference.

cshodges

12-01-2005, 06:33 PM

Actually, 10 minutes can be a tight squeeze if you're working the far end. It's a 1/4 mile walk back to the pits to get to your car -- that can take 5-10 minutes by itself.

froggy47

12-01-2005, 07:13 PM

I agree. 10 minutes is really not enough. Maybe set two grids and announce to workers to grid their cars b4 working. That could speed things up a bit.

Of course there is always an earlier start. First car out 8:30.

Too late for this event as it's already published.

I'm very much for whatever it takes to get 4 runs, just has to be workable.

:):)

nik

12-01-2005, 10:18 PM

No it doesn't make sense. Its the only class that is "2 seats only". Other classes that are intended to be for 2 seaters allow 4 seaters in. The "2 seat only" anomaly tells me that the Miatas and CRXs that are top dog in STS2 are afraid of the screaming STS Civics.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

its more like 1st gen miatas are afraid of everything else...

barkingspyder

12-01-2005, 10:38 PM

Is that trash talking I smell? :D

zads

12-02-2005, 09:17 PM

Just as a heads up, John Morton (http://www.john-morton-racing.us/index.php):
http://john-morton-racing.us/images/John_Morton-logo-01.JPG
http://john-morton-racing.us/images/John_Morton-logo-02.jpg
http://john-morton-racing.us/images/John_Morton-logo-03.jpg
will be there tomorrow, driving one of the UCSD Formula SAE cars.