Tire question for time attack [Archive] - San Diego Region SCCA Forums

DelSolBurrow

07-27-2007, 05:39 PM

I have plans to register for the Redline Time attack at Laguna Secca in November. I have never done a three day full circuit event before so i had a few questions about tires.

Currently I have a set of the Azenis 615 (front 50% REAR 25% life left). My question is will those tires last a full 3 days or should I buy a new set before the event? will a brand new set be toast after 3 days,meaning I will need to buy two sets of tires in the time-span of a weekend? Will I have issues with the 615's getting extremely greasy so maybe a different tire choice should be made for such an event?

The biggest thing for me though is cost, since I mainly I auto X i need to keep the tire life in mind for future SD solo events. So, Should I burn up my current set in hopes they will last? (maybe I wrote all of the above for such a simple question lol)

focus_wrc

07-27-2007, 05:46 PM

I might be there too. I think if you plan to do a 3 day you need a set of brand new tires just to be safe.

But the 3 day would be very expensive around $800 just for the fees. ( if you count for hotel and gas and everything else if would be even more) I might just do the 2 day (sat and sun). but still expensive $600

I might go the SOW on sept 22nd. It should be a lot cheaper maybe $130. for one day event which is not bad.

DelSolBurrow

07-27-2007, 05:50 PM

ya i actauly just checked pricing since the link was not up 2 days ago. the 3 days is a little out of range so the 2 day is most likley what I will be doing.

focus_wrc

07-27-2007, 05:54 PM

I let you know if I am going or not. It should be real fun for sure.

chapmanr

07-29-2007, 08:16 AM

itrbruce

07-29-2007, 09:49 AM

Trust me, few things suck more in racing than getting all pumped (and invested) for a big event and then having tire issues. My advice would be to get new rubber for the event.

New Azenis should survive the event and be useable for a while thereafter. They probably would have heat problems in a summer event, but I think they're a good choice for autumn at Laguna Seca.

I don't want to be too contrary (even tho' I may be) and my experience at track racing is zip compared to some of these others (especially Mr. Chapman)... but a couple of weeks back I was at Streets of Willow on 6 month old daily driver / 7 events and ~5 practices Azenis in 105 in the shade and no shade conditions (my IR-thermo gun said the asphalt was 132 degrees) and they did absolutely fine for 8 * 20 minute sessions. They were well worn when I started and by the end they were completely toasted it is true, but with your light car you could possibly get away with it... BUT! if I had it to do over again I would have gotten new rubber and suggest (like the others) that you get new tires as well.
I hope you have fun,
Bruce

DelSolBurrow

07-29-2007, 11:31 AM

Thanks Ron and Bruce

STI717

07-29-2007, 12:27 PM

Do you have a link to the event?

Thanks

STI717

07-29-2007, 12:49 PM

Found it, looks like a lot fun. Might drive up as a spectator, but if you need a pit crew I would be more than happy to help out.

Jesse

Cullen

07-29-2007, 04:58 PM

Awwww, I wish I could afford to do that. Since your car is light, your tires will do alright, but for heavier cars, the Azenis won't work so well in that environment. Remember to remove the spare! that could be all that separates you from winning. BTW, have you done much track driving before? A time attack sounds like a serious envirnoment for anyone bar a race car driver. However if you have, then I wish you all the luck in competition. Hell, I think I'd do it anyway! Which class will you be in?

DelSolBurrow

07-30-2007, 11:27 AM

No I have not done any track driving but I want to start and I want to drive that track more than any other. I fall in the FWD street class.
The cost of this event has really thrown me off though i still hope i can do it. All the other Redline events have only been 300 for 2 days, so I wasn't really expecting 600. I may have to put it off for now and run a few track days at willow and such for only 120ish. Then run the Redline events early next year at CA speedway and Willow. But I havn't fully given up on Laguna Secca.

Cullen

07-30-2007, 07:18 PM

Yeah, welcome to the club. It is so easy to 'plan' a track day or weekend, but when time comes to start adding expenses with advice from other people, it really all starts coming into perspective.

When I did a single track day at Buttonwillow, costs were like, $160 for reg., $60 for NASA membership, $32 for hotel and $100 for who knows what. I still can't remember where that last $100 went. :confused:

I suggest doing a weekend at Buttonwillow, where you'll have more than enough track time (trust me, two days of 1hour 20mins on track will tire you out) with an instructor which will prepare you for a time attack much better than anything else. It is best to plan for the most track time possible when making a trip.

I think you will enjoy it maybe more than Laguna because you won't be hustled around the track by faster cars not caring if you're new or not. There will be real race car drivers in those time attack cars, and they will scare you, no doubt about it; even if you have done a track day, and especially if you haven't. And you don't want that turning into a disaster by writing your (daily driver?) car off, or maybe yourself off....:(

I think you should still try and make Laguna Seca in the near future, as it's a track you like, but you'll enjoy leaving Laguna's pit lane so much more with prior track time under your belt. Or do what Andrew and I do which is rent a kart at Moran for half the cost of a track day. I think it's more fun and intense too. Good luck with whatever you plan on doing.

Chris

A12

07-30-2007, 09:49 PM

Chris is right dude. I wanted to start attending track days, HPDEs, driving schools, etc... asap but after taking a pleasant detour to Moran raceway in July, Chris and I realized kart racing is the way to start out. The one question I ask you is when do you think you'll be able to compete wheel-to-wheel with a competitive car on a race track in a real race? 3 years? 5 years? Maybe even 7?
With karting, you can be in a competitive kart competing in a competitive field within the next year and just think how well it will prepare you once you transition over to cars. Chris and I should hopefully :D return to Moran again within the next two months and we would be happy to have you come along. For $210 you can get about 1hr 15mins of track time in a 100cc HPV single gear kart that goes up to 70mph. Ask yourself then if you're convinced whether karting is the way to go or not ;) .

-Andrew

Monster8V

07-30-2007, 09:58 PM

No I have not done any track driving but I want to start and I want to drive that track more than any other.

if you havent done any track driving, id recomend you dont make Laguna Seca your first outting. Its not a very forgiving track.

You would better serve yourself by doing more than a few more local track days before attempting a time attack event with any group. For example, with NASA, you cant just show up and run time trials. (same thing as a time attack.) You have to either be able to demonstrate your skills (SCCA or other comp license) or work your way up thru the HPDE system with an instructor until you have proven your skills and ability to do a time trial event.

Also with NASA its only $40 for the membership and you can do the entire weekend on $300 of entry fees or $150 for one days instruction at one of the local tracks. Much more affordable to get some track miles under your belt before you try to mix it up with the big boys. ;)

Andrew:
Realistically, you can be in a race car within 2 years with NASA. The SCCA will cost alot more to get into but I think their comp school us much better. thats just the nature of the beast.

If you have some tallent and the funds to afford ALOT of track time, there is no reason why not. Funds tend to be the biggest limiting factor for everyone, everyone knows that. For my poor soul, it took me 3 years to get my comp license. I spent that time running in the time trial series only because I couldnt afford it at the time.

You are right tho, Karting is much-much easier to get into. No argument there!

A12

07-31-2007, 12:55 AM

Karting is much much more affordable too! I think it helps to say that John, Chris, and I are all college students that are pretty much supporting our own racing careers. With $3500, you can get a good used Rotax, sealed engine kart with spare parts and an additional $1,000 more for maintenance and tires then you're all set. And by being all set, I am referring to being able to compete in a field of 25+ in a spec AND competitive class. So let's say $4,000-$4,500 to be safe. From my research, I think the funds outweight that of karting to compete in a spec/competitive class of 25+ in a race car. Take a regional Nasa Spec Miata class (my near future plan) for instance where a Spec Miata prepared race car usually goes for $9,000-$14,000. And I seriously think there's a reason why most of the world top drivers started out in karting.

-Andrew

ceosurfer

07-31-2007, 11:10 AM

Do this event. RedLine hosts great events. Do not worry that this is your first track experience. Redline is an organization that wants and helps first time participants. You will have an instructor in your car and you will have a good time. (not saying you wont off a couple of times)

Also you don't need to join the NASA or SCCA or the ABCDEFG to participate with RedLine. Saves some cash!

RedLine Time Attack events also have a pretty good contigency program. Do well and you might get something pretty cool.

RedLine pretty much took the middle man out between the enthusiast and the race track. If you want to compete in a circuit side by side (at times) with begginers to professionals its the way to go.

A12

08-01-2007, 09:27 AM

Hey John dude,

I haven't been to a track event but from my friends who have, they advise that if I want to compete down the road, starting off with NASA and trying to stick with them until you move on is a good idea. The reason being is because NASA is more organized and an actual sanctioning body for regional spec competitions and it will familiarize you with the big picture of preparation, class lessons, briefing, de-briefing, and an actual race day. Also NASA's HPDEs are tied into race weekends for Honda Challenge, Spec Miata, Spec SE-R, etc....; which means that during your rest sessions, you will able to watch races and talk to sponsored drivers who are actually serious about racing.
Here's one cool thing, my friend went to California Speedway in March 2 years ago with Nasa and during his rest period he stopped over at one of the Spec Miata driver's garage. After talking to him for a while, the driver, Sean Douglass, INSISTED that he take HIS spec miata out on the track for his next session! Not to mention, it was hailing and raining like a category 10 hurricane just hit!
What I am trying to say is to be strategic about which organizations you do a track day with. Some will definately prepare you better than others.

-Andrew

DelSolBurrow

08-01-2007, 12:12 PM

This is a very information filled thread that is for sure, so thank you all that have responded. This has for sure made me think about what I would like to do for the future.

Andrew and Chris I would love to get a kart, cause you guys are right it is the most affordable and offers wheel to wheel competion very fast. (andrew you even saw my post on SDKA awhile back) My budget is just so tight that I don't think I could have the two vehicles, plus I would need to sell the Del Sol in order to get a truck or SUV to transport the kart. It looks like I really need to check into NASA and thier events, and for the mean time I am going to start running "track days" for practice since I have yet to be on a real track. I may just run some of the other less expensive Redline events just for the soul purpose of gaining seat time.

ceosurfer

08-01-2007, 04:08 PM

just for the soul purpose of gaining seat time.

And thats what its all about! We should all do more track days. I will go with you to Mazda Raceway! What about you Andrew and Chris? You down?

chapmanr

08-01-2007, 04:54 PM

The Redline events are very friendly to newer folks, just like Anthony said. At the event we were at, there were an awful lot of first timers. Lots of them were on a budget and were just there to get started.

As someone said, Laguna is not the best first timers track. And, every event there is expensive to enter because of the fees the track charges.

I'm planning on taking the CRX up. Just have to finish that minor repair which turned into a new wiring harness, new efi system, bigger injectors, a fuel pump...........

chapmanr

08-01-2007, 05:03 PM

Karting is a fabulous way to get started in wheel to wheel. Very accessible, fun to drive. Fitness is a big issue (near heat stroke last time I was at Moran). Plus, while its cheap to get into, that doesn't mean its cheap to run seriously. Travel, gas, replacements, repairs all come with the territory.

Lots of experience in the fields (20 year olds who have been running for 12 years and have that amount of experience as well as setup data).

For the starving student, I'm sure it would be cheaper to do track day events for a couple years than buy a kart and go that route. As long as you keep the shiny side up, that is:>

Cullen

08-01-2007, 06:59 PM

And thats what its all about! We should all do more track days. I will go with you to Mazda Raceway! What about you Andrew and Chris? You down?

I will think about it. It would be pretty awesome to do a 'Time Attack' and live the ricer's dream, at a world class track. Maybe I'll make it on Redline TV or even perhaps, Street Tuner Challenge. Wow, now I'm getting goosebumps. But yeah, I'll see how my funds are going in the future.

I fall in the FWD street class.

I guess I won't make it into this class then, because Daryled still thinks I have a V8 in my car....

A12

08-01-2007, 07:41 PM

Monster8V

08-01-2007, 11:16 PM

I will think about it. It would be pretty awesome to do a 'Time Attack' and live the ricer's dream, at a world class track. Maybe I'll make it on Redline TV or even perhaps, Street Tuner Challenge...

Heres your chance! They will be at the next NASA event at Willow Springs in a couple weeks. :cool:

FYI, ive done Redline events..... not impressed. Unless you like a free for all, might get damage, might not. I understand they are better now than they used tobe but, my gawd man.

Anyways, some need to see for themselves. GL!

Cullen

08-01-2007, 11:34 PM

Heres your chance! They will be at the next NASA event at Willow Springs in a couple weeks. :cool:

FYI, ive done Redline events..... not impressed. Unless you like a free for all, might get damage, might not. I understand they are better now than they used tobe but, my gawd man.

Anyways, some need to see for themselves. GL!

Oh I'm no stranger to the track. Even at NASA, some idiots cannot be tammed when I went in my stock Civic to Buttonwillow last year. I guess the last guy in the train passing me didn't want to be left out, and I had to quickly alter my line going into a decreasing radius turn, which got my heart beating faster for sure. Porsche owners eh?.....:D

Man, all this talk about going to track has resuscitated the dead speed bug inside of me. Soon it will rip out of my chest alien style!

A12

08-02-2007, 12:02 AM

And this is when you cue in the Moran Raceway trip!

I have an idea, why don't John, Anthony, Chris, Mr. JMC, I, and everyone else interested all go to Moran?

-Andrew

DelSolBurrow

08-02-2007, 02:26 AM

Ya I still wanna drive Laguna, but I also want t be able to drive home and talk about after with a fully intact Honda. So, I think I 'm going to pass on Laguna this year and use this coming year to be ready for it when November rolls around again. GL, for those who do go though.

If anyone is interested I will most likely be doing the SRT track day event at Horse Thief mile in early September.

A moran trip with all of us would be pretty sweet, maybe we can organize that some what soon.

It really does seem like NASA is the way to go. They seem to have the instruction there for people who need it and are a organization with a much better rep/professionalism for events. There is also the ability for growth within that sanctioning body it would appear.

Hey andrew, let me know how the trailer works out for you :)

chapmanr

08-02-2007, 05:00 PM

I've gone to three Redline events in the past 18 months, and had only one close call. I wasn't even driving. The yo-yo was on the right side of the track, with pit in approaching on the left side. He points left with his hand out the driver's side. My buddy figures its a point by, and pulls to the left to pass.

Turns out the finger was a new improved way to signal his intention to go into the pit, an it took some fancy maneuvering to avoid a tangle.

I think the track day guys have gone through a learning curve, and are much better behaved than I expected.